What is this 2 child cap benefit anyway? Who does it affect?

Urmstongran

Erm … your post chastises us for blaming women … then says “what about absent mothers”. 🤔

Yes, I realise that might sound contradictory. It's very easy to blame the women - but as others have rightly pointed out, many mothers probably didn't give birth to their children thinking that they would become a single parent (for whatever reason).
My second point is that almost everyone on this thread has spoken about absent fathers - but there are absent mothers too. One point doesn't cancel out the other.

Ilovecheese

This cap has not worked to stop people having more children, it has just made children poorer. Of course all fathers should contribute but they don't. This cap has not led to anything other than poverty for children. I understand that most people don't care, but I would have expected Labour politicians to care.

It’s unfair to say that Labour don’t care. I have already posted above linking to this:

www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-taskforce-launched-to-kickstart-work-on-child-poverty-strategy

Surely it is better to take a considered, holistic approach than respond to a quick King's Speech amendment.

There have been a number of discussions on here where people have been very vocal about not wanting to pay more tax. Reeves is being caution. Labour were elected on a promise of not increasing income tax, NI and VAT so where would the 3.5 billion needed to scrap the cap immediately come from if the government also wants to stimulate economic growth?

The new government has already taken some measures: stopping the 10bn Rwanda scheme, to clawback funds lost to Covid corruption fraud estimated at 7bn, measures to address the 40bn annual tax gap and so on.

It’s been less than 20 days. Give them a chance to find some extra money without resorting to tax rises or cuts to public services.

I don't think birth control comes with a crystal ball.

MissInterpreted

Yes, let's just blame the women, shall we?
Oh, and it's not always absent fathers either - what about absent mothers?

Err birth control is easily available. Perhaps think twice before having more children.

Erm … your post chastises us for blaming women … then says “what about absent mothers”. 🤔

Yes, let's just blame the women, shall we?
Oh, and it's not always absent fathers either - what about absent mothers?

Ilovecheese

This cap has not worked to stop people having more children, it has just made children poorer. Of course all fathers should contribute but they don't. This cap has not led to anything other than poverty for children. I understand that most people don't care, but I would have expected Labour politicians to care.

Well if the cap hasn't stopped women having more than 2 children whose fault it that, the women in my opinion and yes I know it's not the children's fault but it not my fault either or the taxpayers is it.

I actually find myself agreeing with Keir Starmer.

All that sounds pretty fair to me Merion. Thanks for your informative post. It’s ’not as grim’ or harsh as is sometimes supposed it seems.

Apologies. Re-read your post LucyAnna2. Possibly your three grandchildren ARE his only kids. Rubbish system isn’t it? He gets off ‘Scot-free’ it seems (like many others).

This cap has not worked to stop people having more children, it has just made children poorer. Of course all fathers should contribute but they don't. This cap has not led to anything other than poverty for children. I understand that most people don't care, but I would have expected Labour politicians to care.

Oh heck LucyAnna2 that must be so hurtful for your daughter. But why don’t his children with her take preference if they are the oldest ones? I bet he’d soon ‘find money’ then for his other kids.

Keir Starmer is being mocked for his decision. He’s being called Sir Kid Starver apparently.

Maybe digital ID would help trace these absent fathers

You can lead a horse to water Urmstongran……..
( My oldest daughter (a teacher) and her ex husband (he left the family for a colleague at work) have 3 young children - since he left 2 years ago these has paid no maintenance. Self employed - purports not to earn enough to pay.

Chocolatelovinggran The cap has exceptions for multiple births and other circumstances.

Multiple birth

If a further pregnancy results in a multiple birth on or after 6 April 2017, you’ll get the child element for all but one of those children. For example, if you already get Child Tax Credit for 2 or more children and you have twins, you’ll get the child element for one of the twins. If you have triplets, you’ll get the child element for 2 of the triplets. Where the first child of the multiple birth is either the first or second child in the household, we’ll pay a child amount for all the children born as part of the multiple birth.

www.gov.uk/guidance/child-tax-credit-exceptions-to-the-2-child-limit

Turn to us lists exceptional circustances:

You qualify for an exception or special circumstances for each third (or subsequent) child if:

•You have adopted them or other children in your household
•You receive Guardian’s Allowance for them or other children in your household
•They are the second (or more) child born in a multiple birth
•They or other children in your household are the child of one of your children who is under 16 years old
•They or other children in your household are not your child or stepchild and you look after them under a Court Order
•They or other children in your household are not your child or stepchild and you look after them under an arrangement with Social Services (except for formal foster care)
•They were conceived as a result of rape and you do not live with the perpetrator

www.turn2us.org.uk/jargon-buster/two-child-limit-exception

I personally think the cap should stay at 2 children.

Seven decent Labour M.P.s didn't think that their ambition was more important than child poverty. Shame on the rest of them, although this is not a popular view on this site.

Maybe digital ID would help trace these absent fathers.

Sir Keir said on multiple occasions during the election campaign that his Government would not scrap the cap because of the economic implications.

But there had been numerous calls among Labour MPs for the Government to commit to immediately abolishing the limit, along with threats to rebel over the issue.

But ultimately just a fraction of the number needed to defeat the Government on the issue rebelled, with the amendment being voted down by 361 votes to 101.

And some ( planned, wanted ) pregnancies result on in multiples. And sometimes contraception fails. And sometimes husbands disappear off with a new partner...
I'm not entering the debate for or against the two child cap, simply stating that life is not always tidy for everyone.
I was in number three of the scenarios above.

What it really means is that any family who do not have substantial savings or well-off family behind them can't 'afford' to have a 3rd child.
An accident, an unexpected illness, many things, may mean that a family who previously had a decent income can end up claiming benefits.
It also means that any family who claim benefits, including those who are working and claim Tax Credits, have to seriously consider terminating an accidental pregnancy (one reason that some MPs are very unhappy about it).

Thank you posters above, for clarifying the difference between child benefit, and tax credits. I wasn't clear myself.

I've never ever met anyone that doesn't agree with that, though.

^I think Paul Johnson (The Times Monday) is nearer the mark. ‘If middle income people have to make financial trade-offs and sacrifices when deciding how many children to have, is it really fair to have an open- ended commitment to poorer families who decide to have more children’.

Well said that man! 👏👏

I don’t think that child benefit provides much of a cushion!

For poorer families what it does is relieve absolute want and it doesn’t do that very well. Employment can be precarious. That and the impact of huge increases in the cost of living have driven many into poverty without any reckless procreation on their part.

I think people object to the idea that they have lots of children, to get more benefits, so they can spend it on having acrylic nails, "the latest iPhone" and huge TVs.

To my astonishment, saying people should only have the children they can afford, is often not very well received on GN !

GrannyGravy13

tickingbird
Family allowance hasn’t been around for half a century or thereabouts.
It is now called child benefit and it is given to all mothers (parents) for all children.

HICBC (High income child benefit charge) is implemented on salaries from £60,000.

Those on salaries of £80,000 and over the extra tax payment is equal to the amount of child benefit.

I know GG13. I’ve had 3 children and used to receive it.