What is this 2 child cap benefit anyway? Who does it affect?

I agree Urmston, the fathers should be forced to pay maintenance.
If I remember correctly there used to be a process where money was extracted from wages before the father got paid, was that stopped because it was unfair to the dad ?

I think that was the Child Support Agency. Never hear of it these days so assume it’s been scraped.

Yes, but the two issues are separate. The particular case of the woman Frances in your quote is no argument against child benefit.
And why was the old family allowance acceptable but child benefit not?

Family allowance hasn’t been around for half a century or thereabouts.

Collecting money from reluctant fathers now falls to the Child Maintenance Service.

Of course fathers must pay maintenance. Most do, some are determined to avoid or keep payments to the minimum. If dad is unemployed or self employed and dishonest about earnings, it’s hard to chase up and enforce

I can see the arguments for and against the two child limit on universal and tax credit after the date it was set to be introduced (was it 2017).
Of course, the aim was to discourage people (women) from having more children than they could afford to care for. Life happens though and it’s possible that changed circumstances can leave families in genuine need.

Years ago I worked in a clinic where baby andmilk and vitamin drops were given out freely to young mothers on child benefit. They handed over their tokens, were given 3 tins of SMA milk and vitamin drops. They then went to the phone in the reception area, rang for a taxi to take them to a shopping centre. then went outside and lit up a cigarette.

She was on benefits but could afford to get taxis and smoke. Other mums who could not caim benefits as they were above the threshold for claiming them were having to pay a lot of money for their baby milk so were worse off than the mothers on benefits.

There is something wrong with our system.

Why is it up to tax payers to raise others larger families. I had 2 children, I could afford 2 no more and I had a husband. When I hear of single mothers with children by different fathers it sickens me. Do they care or even think about the life that child will have? We need proper social workers being paid a good salary without back breaking case loads. A lot of them afraid to go into some homes now.
Why have children with a man that won’tsupport his child when you already have children?

I’m surprised that anyone who follows politics doesn’t know about the 2 children benefit cap. GPs on this forum are probably aware, as it affects their GCs
Parents who earn more than £60000 pay some or all of it back in tax on a sliding scale.
Still raising the issue makes for good possibly diverse comments.

tickingbird

Family allowance hasn’t been around for half a century or thereabouts.

It is now called child benefit and it is given to all mothers (parents) for all children.

HICBC (High income child benefit charge) is implemented on salaries from £60,000.

Those on salaries of £80,000 and over the extra tax payment is equal to the amount of child benefit.

The two-child limit is not on Child Benefit but on Universal Credit and Tax Credits and aplies for familie with children born after 5 April 2017.

Child Benefit is a separate benefit and paid to families for every child at a rate £25.60 pw for the first child and £16.95 pw for subsequent children. So, if you have four children you can claim £25.60 + (3 x £16.95) per week = £76.45. But this is subject to an overall benefit cap.

The overall benefit cap for families, couples and single parents is £1,835 per month for those outside London and £2,110 per month in London. Child benefit is included in calculating the total for that.

Martin Lewis explains more here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLbr3k6POg4

Yesterday was an exercise in performative politics from the SNP. An amendment to the Kings Speech does nothing to change the situation. This issue is already part of the Poverty taskforce which is expected to recommend scrapping in time for Autumn statement. The position was made clear throughout the general election.

www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-taskforce-launched-to-kickstart-work-on-child-poverty-strategy

It is quite right this benefit is not available to families with an income of 60k upwards.
I assume the third child cap was to make people think before they went ahead with another child.

Regarding child maintenance,the old CSA was useless, a friend of mine had a husband who paid £9 a week toward his two children, he had a second home, a yacht in Florida and a partner who worked for the Inland Revenue!

There are plenty of women who have to different fathers for their children.
Even here on gransnet.
Calling them dd1s dp or gdc's dsp doesnt change the facts

Applies for families ...

As I understand it, it’s not child benefit which remains unaffected regardless of how many children a couple have, but it’s about Universal Credit and child tax credit, which stop at two children.

The Conservatives brought this sensible plan in and surprisingly it seems that Labour are keeping it.

Universal Credit is set for a review soon.

That's much clearer Merion I think
Thanks.

Back in the days of family allowance I remember some people didn't claim it, as a matter of pride.

It seems like there will always be ways to take advantage of the benefit system but hopefully most people just want the best for their children.

It’s a real dilemma. Of course people shouldn’t continue to have babies they cannot afford.

It’s not the govt’s job to pay for the upbringing of children.

In the other hand, what about the children already here?

Then there’s the available money…..

I am troubled by the two sides taken by the 2 child limit debate. No-one wants to think of children raised in poverty however the right to have children has to include the responsibility to provide for them. Several of our younger sons friends have opted for one child or none simply because they don’t think they can afford to bring them up properly. MP Rosie Duffied says the cap is ‘social cleansing’. I think Paul Johnson (The Times Monday) is nearer the mark. ‘If middle income people have to make financial trade-offs and sacrifices when deciding how many children to have, is it really fair to have an open- ended commitment to poorer families who decide to have more children’. The way to end child poverty is not simply to alter one factor but to review the whole social support system and look at the ways in which some people can re-enter the job market without penalising the chronically sick and disabled.

GrannyGravy13

tickingbird
Family allowance hasn’t been around for half a century or thereabouts.
It is now called child benefit and it is given to all mothers (parents) for all children.

HICBC (High income child benefit charge) is implemented on salaries from £60,000.

Those on salaries of £80,000 and over the extra tax payment is equal to the amount of child benefit.

I know GG13. I’ve had 3 children and used to receive it.

To my astonishment, saying people should only have the children they can afford, is often not very well received on GN !

I think people object to the idea that they have lots of children, to get more benefits, so they can spend it on having acrylic nails, "the latest iPhone" and huge TVs.

I don’t think that child benefit provides much of a cushion!

For poorer families what it does is relieve absolute want and it doesn’t do that very well. Employment can be precarious. That and the impact of huge increases in the cost of living have driven many into poverty without any reckless procreation on their part.

^I think Paul Johnson (The Times Monday) is nearer the mark. ‘If middle income people have to make financial trade-offs and sacrifices when deciding how many children to have, is it really fair to have an open- ended commitment to poorer families who decide to have more children’.

Well said that man! 👏👏