GPs vote for Industrial action

I think if the GPs take this action, it’s because it’s the only way to make the government realise that Practices need more funding. As GP salaries are not set by government, unlike hospital doctors, increased funding would not necessarily fund pay rises for the doctors, although I imagine that they would take a pay rise, just like everyone else does each year.

No problem ronib, I only know what I know about GP Practice finances from whatever my daughter told me about her Practice. I certainly don’t know everything. I do make an effort to get my flu jab at my doctor’s because I know the Practice is paid for each vaccine given, and I prefer that to giving it to Boots who are owned by Americans I think. For the same reason I take up the offer of my asthma review and BP review. I know the Practice needs the money.

GPS became business managers in 2004, if my memory is correct. Around the same time, team managers in local authority Children’s teams were given responsibility for the annual budget. I’d enjoyed management because we were focussed on improving practice, on clinical supervision. We were given no training or advice on budget management. I opted out and found a specialist senior practitioner role. Financially I was no worse off, in terms of my work, very happy

I don’t expect GPs had the option of avoiding budgets and managing big practices - unless they left general practice and became consultants? I realise I may be comparing apples and pears

maddyone of course my mistake - I should not have been so personal but rather should ask if to anyone’s knowledge, what reimbursement happens when a GP partner resigns from a practice. For example, is the original price if you like reimbursed but with no interest or enhancement?

You did rather emphasise the financial aspects in one of your posts so I assumed wrongly that you would know.

I will just add, that my daughter’s surgery was not part of any American owned conglomerate. It was privately owned by the doctors who were partners.
She’s now a salaried GP at her surgery in NZ. I don’t think they can buy into the Practices there, but I might be wrong.

Ronib did you want the GPS to dictate referral letters, read letters from hospitals, read test results and call patients, take next steps, seek second opinion from colleague, deal with running the business and matters Ted cqc, carry out professional development so that they are up to date when treating you, have a lunch break, have a few weeks holiday etc or was it just the 40 appointments? 40 appointments are considered very unsafe level. What you have described is way over 3 days work

That’s my understanding too Urmstongran

I don’t know if she made any profit on the sale of her share because I wasn’t rude enough to ask her. Suffice it to say that she moved to New Zealand (where the situation for GPs is little different than the UK) anyway she moved under coercion because she was married to a coercive controlling man. Her situation is not happy as although she has left him, she cannot leave NZ to return to the UK, as she wishes because he will not allow the children to return to the country of their birth. She has even had to go to court to get permission to bring them home for a visit at Christmas, so my daughter’s situation is anything but ideal, separated from her family and all support (that’s what controllers do, seek to separate the person they are controlling from friends and family.) I do know that he took part of the money saying it was his as they were married when she paid it. She currently works four jobs to pay for the things her children need as well as living costs, she works as a GP, she works for a private clinic which caters for menopausal women (she did extra training for this) and she works at home, all online, during the evening, she works some shifts in ED (like our A+E) some evenings till 11.00pm and after working as a GP in the day, and she did extra training to become a forensic examiner of women who have been raped/abused. This is only when the police call her out and when she can be available. She feels very strongly about this because she was abused in her marriage.
Now I’ve never written so many details on this site about what she has endured, but the suggestion that she is somehow taking from the system (she only took what was legitimately hers) needs to have the record set straight.

Casdon likewise

I don’t think so ronib, I could see you coming a mile off.

Casdon. As usual you have missed the point. You are aware that private US health insurance companies are buying up gps practices?
In the olden days, gps were not driven by financial gain.
It’s entirely appropriate to ask maddyone if her gp daughter profited from selling her share of the practice. It’s her choice not to tell.

ronib

Did your daughter make any profit on the sale of her share of the gp partnership maddyone?

That’s none of our business ronib, what a very inappropriate question. If I asked you how much you earned, would you say?

Did your daughter make any profit on the sale of her share of the gp partnership maddyone?

My daughter was a partner at her Practice and she most certainly did not get a bonus every six months! In fact, as I mentioned upthread, in the last year of working in this country she had to take a cut in pay, as did the other partners, because the Practice was underfunded. All partners ‘buy in.’ That’s means they basically take out a mortgage so that they can ‘buy in’ and they pay the funds to the Practice, then they pay back the money to the lender month by month, out of their pay, just like paying a mortgage. When they leave, usually because of retirement, they take out their portion and the Practice needs to find another GP who will agree to buy in and become a partner, so,that they can continue to run the Practice. Increasingly GPs are preferring to be salaried, which causes difficulties sometimes because the Practice can be short of funds. It was two full years before the Practice could afford to pay back my daughter after she left, and it was a substantial sum of money, since the cost of buying in is not cheap.

Should stop overpaying BBC employee s and get MPs on a more reasonable wage After all they don't even have to attend parliament don't have to meet the local people if they don't want and don't they usually have time for another job Do the lord's get paid Time people like Doctors got what they deserve

Unions offer support and assistance to members in all kinds of situations and our doctors. This includes legal

Numbers of doctors in the BMA has risen, not fallen.

www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-membership-hits-record-high-highlighting-doctors-support-for-industrial-action.

the BMA offers professional support in many areas related to work:

www.bma.org.uk/member-benefits/member-benefits-for-gps#:~:text=The%20BMJ%20Stay%20up%2Dto,free%20initial%20consultations%20and%20webinars.

without them the junior doctors would till be on £14 a week.

Hospital doctors have the alternative of joining the Hospital doctors Association, however the same concerns are voiced.

"Fix medical pay to retain doctors in the NHS
Develop doctors at every stage of the career arc
A robust workforce that recognises doctors’ status
Make the health service a safe place to work
Fund a health service fit for future challenges

www.hcsa.com

Casdon

There is no logic in calling an organisation vile because it ballots its members and then recommends action based on what they vote for. What would be the point of being in any union if it didn’t support the wishes of its members?

Also,- how come unions/professional associations are dreadful organisations. What a strange view of the organisations that represent its members

RosiesMaw2

Sadly many “professions/vocations” especially for men depended on the services of the unpaid partner- doctors, clergy among others. Even my mother would have to field business calls at home out of regular office hours and simply refused to do more than refer them to the office number during office hours!
I suspect your DH and my SIL are of a similar vintage (70’s) and nobody would argue the conditions were ideal. But if you predicate an efficient service on unpaid assistance and unpaid overtime (like teachers) you are setting the system up to fail when the professionals and their partners say No more.

Oh agreed. But in those days, there was no discussion and no choice. It was what it was. Qualified UCH 1969.

The arrival of reliable mobile phones changed my life, and finally allowed me to go back to Uni and get my B.Ed.Hons. Would not have been possible before.

Just saying that, like many things, it has gone from extreme to extreme, sublime to the ridiculous. Explaining why I feel conflicted and confused about the current situation and GPs feeling they are working too hard.

There is no logic in calling an organisation vile because it ballots its members and then recommends action based on what they vote for. What would be the point of being in any union if it didn’t support the wishes of its members?

cc

Urmstongran

Any medic with any integrity needs to cancel their membership of this vile organisation and make a stand. I know of three who have.

I'm not sure if they can actually continue to work as doctors in the UK if they don't belong to the BMA?

They can. There are alternative unions!

Ours has a very very good practice manager, I think it makes all the difference.

But the practice has to be big enough to pay out for this business management .

(7 GP's ,6 are partners, once P/T non partner).

Also 2 Physician Associates who see patients referred by doctor for chronic help,

3 nurses, all high level specialists in different fields,

3 pharmacists, (2 are assistants),

and 2 healthcare assistants (bloods, etc).

Reception team.

Sadly many “professions/vocations” especially for men depended on the services of the unpaid partner- doctors, clergy among others. Even my mother would have to field business calls at home out of regular office hours and simply refused to do more than refer them to the office number during office hours!
I suspect your DH and my SIL are of a similar vintage (70’s) and nobody would argue the conditions were ideal. But if you predicate an efficient service on unpaid assistance and unpaid overtime (like teachers) you are setting the system up to fail when the professionals and their partners say No more.

homefarm

maddyone

What did you do after your five years at university?
My daughter spent twelve years after A levels in order to become a fully qualified GP.

30years with the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice and they are now a shambles as well

The question as I read it, meant 'how many years of study'.

Very rare- someone had to be at home to take calls- and normally it was the 'wife'- very rarely another membr of the family, unpaid. As said on a 1 night in 4, or 3, when a partner away or sick- and that was on top of full days. There were no portable phones until 'the brick', and that didn't work in rural areas.

Fleurpepper

Wife/spouse was unable to work as had to be at home to take calls, night, day, weekend, unpaid.

That is one experience, but my Sis in Law was a single mum and a GP.
Phone calls went to the surgery and her little boy was at childminder until she got home in the evening.
Overnight calls were on a rota and her DM used to go and stay overnight every weekend SIL was on call.