Means testing state pension.

We can always rely in the good old DM to come up with some nonsense or another to scare their readers.
Anything to get at the LP. Who have only been in government less than 8 weeks.

A petition was submitted to stop calling the State Pension a benefit back in 2016 during Conservative Government. See the response.

petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/121267#:~:text=However%2C%20use%20of%20the%20word,the%20use%20of%20this%20term.

vampirequeen If as already pointed out the SNP challenged Labour over the black hole and were told there was none and that there would be "no austerity" maybe SStarmer and co should have checked BEFORE the election.John Swinney knew about it WHY didn't Rachel Reeves?

paddyann54

vampirequeen If as already pointed out the SNP challenged Labour over the black hole and were told there was none and that there would be "no austerity" maybe SStarmer and co should have checked BEFORE the election.John Swinney knew about it WHY didn't Rachel Reeves?

Of course they did!

The state pension is not a benefit. We’ve paid in our contributions over our working lives for it. What would people live on? Fresh air?

paddyann54

vampirequeen If as already pointed out the SNP challenged Labour over the black hole and were told there was none and that there would be "no austerity" maybe SStarmer and co should have checked BEFORE the election.John Swinney knew about it WHY didn't Rachel Reeves?

Swinney probably took a stab in the dark and was right, which is astounding.

There are many that the state pension is a small part of their income, they do pay tax on it of course but there. Is no reason to give them the 60 or 70% of it, certainly not if they have a lot of other assets.

It is technically a benefit. Your NI contributions did not create a pension fund from which you draw the pension. NI contributions pay the pensions of those already retired. When you retire your pension is paid by the NI contributions of those still in work. So it's a benefit just like any other benefit but most of us feel we've paid in and therefore have a moral right to a payout.

Here’s a link to a good article.

inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/pensions-and-retirement/government-means-test-state-pension-3250991?srsltid=AfmBOopVDM_VmiV0md5MK8gqAcOkm7qDF1hRcpIi8DG_QptWEa2r-mOx

I think there would be a silver uprising if it were to happen.

Call it a benefit, call it an entitlement, an insurance, a pension - I don't care. But whether or not there is a 'pot' (and the fact that there isn't an individual account or personal fund is always expressed in this way) is neither here nor there. The rhetoric feels like one of those things that is planted so that if we hear it often enough we'll believe it to be true.

People were told that if they paid in for X years they would get Y back at Z age, and have planned accordingly. The age has already shifted, causing a lot of hardship. Means-testing the pension would be political suicide, because it would be ridiculously unfair. Those who haven't paid in would still have to be provided for, so what would those who have paid be told they had paid for? We know we've paid for the generation ahead of us, but that was on the understanding that subsequent ones would pay for us.

Yes, there have been demographic shifts, but governments through the years were aware of those as they happened. It was their role to ensure that this was managed, and if they failed at that it is now their role to manage things to honour the promises of their predecessors. Not to do so would be shameful.

It may be that changes have to be made for the future, but people who are now paying NI would have to be able to claim based on their payments to date, and given plenty of time to adjust to whatever scheme replaced the current one. My work pension changed from Final Salary to Career Average, but was phased in so that those within X years of retirement stayed on the old scheme, current employees moved to a hybrid version and new starters went onto the new one. Something like that might happen, but as it would mean that it came to pass with a different government in charge I think it's possibly unlikely. Who would want the flak without the benefits? It would be a very brave move - it's possible, though.

Because I have a teachers pension my state pension is lower than it would be if I didn’t - so it’s been means tested all along.

Sago

I think there would be a silver uprising if it were to happen.

I have my pitchfork and torch ready. It would be unconscionable if not properly phased in with decades of notice.

AFAIK it’s means tested in Australia. A friend of ours (comfortable but not hugely wealthy) got no state pension.

vegansrock

Because I have a teachers pension my state pension is lower than it would be if I didn’t - so it’s been means tested all along.

That's because of opting out, not because of means testing. Still unfair, as not everyone understood that they would get less (or that they were paying less in), but it's not the same thing.

This has all the hallmarks of the Daily Mail doing their best to antagonise and alarm the population by being very economical with the truth concerning the new Labour Government.

Witzend

AFAIK it’s means tested in Australia. A friend of ours (comfortable but not hugely wealthy) got no state pension.

We have two lots of Australian friends who get no pension as they are deemed to have enough savings and private pensions.

Witzend

AFAIK it’s means tested in Australia. A friend of ours (comfortable but not hugely wealthy) got no state pension.

It is means tested in Australia, but Australians know that. It is seen as a benefit, unlike in the UK, and Australians pay more into private pensions than we do (I have family over there). I think the move to calling it a benefit here was an attempt to shift the public mindset, but on the whole it has failed.

Ladyleftfieldlover

This has all the hallmarks of the Daily Mail doing their best to antagonise and alarm the population by being very economical with the truth concerning the new Labour Government.

As a point of interest The Telegraph are also discussing the possiblity of Labour means testing the State Pension.

Sago

I think there would be a silver uprising if it were to happen.

Indeed.

And rightly so. There is an expectation, must be met.

Doodledog

vegansrock

Because I have a teachers pension my state pension is lower than it would be if I didn’t - so it’s been means tested all along.

That's because of opting out, not because of means testing. Still unfair, as not everyone understood that they would get less (or that they were paying less in), but it's not the same thing.

Teachers were given no choice and had to opt out.

J52

Doodledog

vegansrock

Because I have a teachers pension my state pension is lower than it would be if I didn’t - so it’s been means tested all along.

That's because of opting out, not because of means testing. Still unfair, as not everyone understood that they would get less (or that they were paying less in), but it's not the same thing.

Teachers were given no choice and had to opt out.

I know, and didn't say they did. I have a TP. Because I was opted out, I paid less NI than if I hadn't (and I know there was no choice). I therefore paid even more flipping NI to bring my SP up to the full amount. Maddening, I know. I also know that a lot of people didn't realise they'd been opted out, as many people (understandably) just look at the take home pay box on the pay slip.

It's rubbish. So many people (particularly women) expected to retire at 60 with a full pension on top of their occupational one, and why wouldn't they? They then had to work to 66 only to find that their SP was short because someone else had opted them out of paying full NI without making it clear. Not only that, but they have to listen to smart Alecs telling them that they must have known this was all going to happen.

It's not a benefit no matter how some parties wish to title it as such.

It's an entitlement and I am entitled to it as I been paying Taxes and NI for nearly 50 years. I did my bit. I worked and I paid for it all my long working life , and the deal is when I reach the 'extended' state pension age they will pay out my state pension.

I do not trust this government. Unlike their trade union buddies, state age pensioners cannot go on strike so they will be an easy target.

J52

Doodledog

vegansrock

Because I have a teachers pension my state pension is lower than it would be if I didn’t - so it’s been means tested all along.

That's because of opting out, not because of means testing. Still unfair, as not everyone understood that they would get less (or that they were paying less in), but it's not the same thing.

Teachers were given no choice and had to opt out.

Yes.

It was a sneaky way of means testing the old State Pension.

I worked in a bank and was given no choice about opting out. I never fully understood the implications until I was approaching retirement.