Dog walker attacked in park

Iam64

I appreciate the way you describe the factors contributing to a form of nihilism in adults and children MOnica. It isn’t only poverty in its financial sense, its poverty of ideas, of the ability to recognise the things that lead to better lives.

I remember one 18 year old mum saying ‘what’s the point, she can’t talk yet” when I was encouraging her to make eye contact and sing a nursery rhyme to her 8month old baby. Poverty of aspiration, ignorance of the joy in small things.

I agrée Iam64 and MOnica - I think ‘a form of nihilism’ and despair are what lie beneath what looks like entitlement and disrespect for others. It is very hard to shift or work with and I think can only be changed by long term consistent support and work in communities. My daughter (adopted as an older child) is like this and is on the brink of losing 4 out of her 6 chikdren to the care system. It feels like nothing I can say or do can make any impression on her huge shame and despair and conviction that there is no point in trying to do better - hope is unbearable and impossible for her and I think we can see 5e same collectively in many of our most deprived and abandoned communities.

maggsMcG I must have missed something here where has immigration come into it ??? We don’t know who the children were do we maybe I m behind in the news but as the 14 year old hasn’t been identified we have no idea who he is have we ?

Sorry about the fat fingers I'm just so cross about the whole unfairness of the immigrants situation. I'm not racist just concerned about the over use of the racist card for no reason.

Not all immigrants are non white there are immigrants of all shades. Not allimmigtabts are criminals. Not all immigrants are LEGAL. That's the major problem when people arrive in any control illegally eith no form of identity so no wat to know I they are criminals or not. I'm all for immigrants and true asylum seekers bring integrated into our society but not trying to integrate us into theirs in our country.

Tthe fascinating thing about this case, Iam64 is that the boy who cooperated and came out so well is the one that was from the most severely disfunctional family. The second boy, who had problems at home, mainly, I think because he had a disabled sibling, and was easily led, is the one that has been recalled several times. and is currently back behind bars.

It's good to know they do have secure units and a regime @ Iam64

At least one of the boys responded well to the programme. Such a shame about the other one, but he may well have been the ringleader in the first place.

Secure Accommodation is used to contain 14 year olds accused of serious offences. The boys who murdered Jamie Bolger went to separate units. One of them responded well to the regime. Cooperated, worked at education, had positive relationships with staff. Hes on life licence as would be expected. He’s kept of trouble and never been recalled
The other boy didn’t respond posituvely to Secure or prison. His life licence had him recalled to prison. He’s also been charged with serious offences

GrannyGravy13

I hope that therapy and education will help this young lad. He maybe troubled or he may just be an out and out bad soul

We do not know his family history, we do not know his mother is a single parent, we do not know his father isn’t around. This as far as I am aware is just malicious speculation.

Talk of reprogramming really? We are not in North Korea or China.

RIP Bhim💐

Re educating then, whatever you want to call it when children have to attend a programme when they have killed someone. I don't really know what it's called, but maybe a detention centre? They used to have Borstals, but I don't know these days what they do with them?

You're right though, we don't know what caused it, we just have to hope he gets the appropriate help to turn his life around and that "lessons will be learnt"

I hope that therapy and education will help this young lad. He maybe troubled or he may just be an out and out bad soul

We do not know his family history, we do not know his mother is a single parent, we do not know his father isn’t around. This as far as I am aware is just malicious speculation.

Talk of reprogramming really? We are not in North Korea or China.

RIP Bhim💐

Apart from parents influence, kids are influenced by social media and friends, the internet, violent games and too much screen time in general is bad. Unsupervised use of the internet, or bad friendships especially.

Also I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned behavioural disorders and past abuse because children often play out what they have seen or experienced.

Whatever the cause is, that ship has well and truly sailed. So there will need to be some sort of punishment and reprogramming.

It's almost unbelievable that someone so young has so little regard for human life - their own included.

Boy, 14, held on suspicion of murdering 80-year-old man in Leicestershire*

Hope the courts make an example of them

Just because a child was complimented on their behaviour when they were small, doesnt mean they can't go off the rails later on in life.

I do too GrannySomerset and Iam. I know how much it meant to us when our boys behaviour was complimented as it often was.

There will now be a lot of money spent on this 14 year old for many years to come. Money which should have been spent on prevention of such events happening. So many cut backs over the last decade.
Parenting has to be taught. It is not an innate skill. In our society now with all the distractions, financial and "cultural" poverty (Cultural being my umbrella term for education, ideas, skills, social skills. I expect there is a better term, but can't think of one) good parenting is hard to do. The majority manage, the minority fail and need help... as well as being accountable in such events.
We must wait for any more information about the offender before we can judge what has gone wrong for him and why.

Good for you GrannySomerset. I do the same.

We do need to invest in our children. Including into helping the ones confused about their sexuality or gender.

I think parents need encouragement. I always compliment the parents of reasonably behaved children in cafes because they deserve it. Always very well received.

Well the attention is not on youth clubs etc. seems to me that money is now spend on helping to change gender and on deliberations of various grievances of emotional nature.

I think this is a very sad day for Leicestershire when something as terrible as this happens in one of our parks.

Leicester has become such a poor city and some parts are really no-go areas even for the police.

I appreciate the way you describe the factors contributing to a form of nihilism in adults and children MOnica. It isn’t only poverty in its financial sense, its poverty of ideas, of the ability to recognise the things that lead to better lives.

I remember one 18 year old mum saying ‘what’s the point, she can’t talk yet” when I was encouraging her to make eye contact and sing a nursery rhyme to her 8month old baby. Poverty of aspiration, ignorance of the joy in small things.

I agree with you Iam64. Nowadays most children are growing up in homes where both parents work and this problem is not generalised across the hwole population, but, generally, contained within communities where poverty, deprivation and, often unemployment leave people growing up with no hope of ever being able to improve their lives and engenders a form of nihilism in adults and children.

The 14 yr old has just been charged for this. Just came up on my phone

I blame the internet. It is a fount of knowledge, but in the wrong hands or in the case of an unattended minor, I think it can be a disaster.

I’m not convinced working parents are the problem. At the risk of generalising, my worry is in some families,we are 4th 5th generation where neither parent works. School attendance isn’t their priority. We have a group who are outside what most of us see as the norms, the culture by which we live.

I live in one of those forgotten northern towns with a proud tradition of working women, both my grans worked in the cotton mills. There was a strong culture of hard work, allotments where food, including rabbit, was grown. People worked together, looked out for each other and took great pride in donkey stoning their front step.
The mills, the manufacturing, the mines, engineering all went. We still have strong stable communities but we also have a minority of people, alienated from society with a sense of entitlement and no desire to get a job and work hard. Their children are poor school attenders. Routines absent.
We really do need family centres, education welfare officers to ensure school attendance, school nurses and youth workers.

It’s short sighted to believe cuts to services will save money. Look at the results of thst simplistic approach