Dog walker attacked in park

I do think the internet plays a significant role in this but also some parents are not taking enough care as to what their children are watching and who they are communicating with. When both parents have to work hard, it must be difficult to monitor what children are doing. Also exhausted parents must find it difficult to engage fully with their children, for example taking them to activities or playing games at home.

Back in the early 1980s, when DC were 9 and 11 we were on holiday on the Isle of Wight with my DMiL. We went into a small smart hotel to have some lunch in the bar. The children behaved normally; read the menu, ordered their food, ate in a mannerly way. In fact we enjoyed it so much DMiL suggested we come back in the evening to eat in the restaurant, her treat.

When we went to book a table the staff were very uneasy and only accepted our booking because we would be eating very early. When we sat down to the table the children accepted menus, chose their food, sat and chatted, ate the food when it came using cutlery properly, just like any civilised person

To our amazement the staff were all over us by the end of the meal, how beautifully behaved our children were etc etc. All I could think was that they were 9 and 11, and of an age where I would expect any child to know how to behave when eating out They were behaving just like other children we knew and there was nothing exceptional in their behaviour, but obviously , even in the 1980s, even quite a smart hotel had had well off parents coming in with children unable to behave themselves properly in a restaurant.

BlueBelle

Please stop blaming single parents I was a single parent the children had very little input from their father (a phone call now and then maybe two or three times a year) no physical , or monetary support at all no interest never a present or card, zero. I did all sorts of menial jobs to fit around school but they were brought up with values and many single mums or dads do as good a job as couples in fact better if the couples are both involved with poor standards my children and grandchildren have all done very well in life.
It’s a very big and complex situation with no one easy answer with many possible reasons as to why some children have become feral, there can be a multitude of reasons
Parents needing to work longer hours to parents having no job at all drugs must play a huge role but what’s the answer make the penalties stronger or legalise them ? social media, A1, violent games, lack of discipline in schools, drink, lack of police power like of teacher power, children like dogs being given too high a status higher than their elders
poor mental health (why so much poor mental health now?) why a huge increase in ADHD, Autism and I do believe it’s not just down to understanding or recognising it more, I think there IS more, but why? is it food, additives, meds, sprays, the atmosphere.

Is this happening in other rich countries ? I m sure it is in US but what about other European countries have they all got more feral, poorly behaved, out of control children or is it us?
Sorry that’s a post with more questions than answers

The only answer I can give is that my daughter has just returned from a holiday abroad. Staying at a hotel full of ( she thinks) German and Scandinavian families with beautifully behaved children. A few hours before they were ( thankfully) leaving a British family arrived with a young child that was totally out of control. The parents did nothing but shout at it. She said they were relieved to be going home and didn’t think they could have coped with a whole week of it. I can also remember going to ( I think) Drayton Manor Park years ago and thinking to myself that the only well behaved children seemed to be with Asian parents ( in fact I’ve just asked my partner if he remembered me remarking on it at the time and he does). I’d actually forgotten about it till tonight.

M0nica

kittylester

There must be a case for charging the parent's with something - neglect? Including absent fathers - assuming they can find them.

The probem is that they are themselves the victims of the same poor parenting that they are passing onto their children. They do not know how to parent, build stable relationships, are almost invariably living in poverty, unemployed, often with addiction problems.

When did we last here of a gang of 12-14 year olds from an area of standard medium to small family homes, with stable families, parents in employment and with a positive attitude to education, running riot, terrorising people and kicking old people to death?

Yes, perhaps, but if someone doesn't help them break the cycle it helps no one. We don't know their family back ground so should't assume.

There are families with two parents who are well off, racist and let their toddlers play Grandtheft Auto, so the single parent thing shouldn't come into it. Also, better to be brought up with one good parent than two useless ones.

I haven't seen any posts blaming single mothers @Bluebelle (sporry if I missed them) but I for one know that relationships can break down for no fault of our own. Yes, it happens in America , except there they shoot them to death.

Please stop blaming single parents I was a single parent the children had very little input from their father (a phone call now and then maybe two or three times a year) no physical , or monetary support at all no interest never a present or card, zero. I did all sorts of menial jobs to fit around school but they were brought up with values and many single mums or dads do as good a job as couples in fact better if the couples are both involved with poor standards my children and grandchildren have all done very well in life.
It’s a very big and complex situation with no one easy answer with many possible reasons as to why some children have become feral, there can be a multitude of reasons
Parents needing to work longer hours to parents having no job at all drugs must play a huge role but what’s the answer make the penalties stronger or legalise them ? social media, A1, violent games, lack of discipline in schools, drink, lack of police power like of teacher power, children like dogs being given too high a status higher than their elders
poor mental health (why so much poor mental health now?) why a huge increase in ADHD, Autism and I do believe it’s not just down to understanding or recognising it more, I think there IS more, but why? is it food, additives, meds, sprays, the atmosphere.

Is this happening in other rich countries ? I m sure it is in US but what about other European countries have they all got more feral, poorly behaved, out of control children or is it us?
Sorry that’s a post with more questions than answers

I live in a fairly well off area. About 10 years ago after I had reprimanded a young boy (who I was told by his mother, was only 15!!) for kicking a football into my drive I was informed by the parent I should be in a care home. Goodness knows what she'd say now. I am convinced that parents should be hauled into court and sentenced for lack of control. As for nothing to do all day, what have previous generations done all day, especially with no mobile phones, computers to amuse themselves with. Afraid for me it's lack of interest and control by parents that's the problem. And, my parents worked when I was young, they would be 120, 118 years old if still alive so a few generations have survived with working parents without resorting to violence.

Yes, groups of young teenagers can be very intimidating, and lawless. Since they were given free bus travel, many are now travelling in groups to other places, causing mayhem, and damage. I wonder if any have had their bus passes taken away.

kittylester

There must be a case for charging the parent's with something - neglect? Including absent fathers - assuming they can find them.

The probem is that they are themselves the victims of the same poor parenting that they are passing onto their children. They do not know how to parent, build stable relationships, are almost invariably living in poverty, unemployed, often with addiction problems.

When did we last here of a gang of 12-14 year olds from an area of standard medium to small family homes, with stable families, parents in employment and with a positive attitude to education, running riot, terrorising people and kicking old people to death?

There must be a case for charging the parent's with something - neglect? Including absent fathers - assuming they can find them.

Another one who disagrees with LailaAnn.

I will start by agreeing with her, all the problems she lists do exist in society, but it is not the many, it is the few. Most children grow up in stable homes with parents who care for them and teach them good and just values.

The problem is the few, who mainly live in big inner cities where poverty is ingrained or in northern industrial towns, from Blackpool to Hull whose industries have long deserted them and nothing has been done to replace them.

We need focusse solutions for particular problems in specific communities.

Sorry but I don't agree with you Laila Ann.

Parents who let their children play violent games and parents who say racist things and are anti social are responsible. We are not responsible for other people's bad parenting.
I agree that the parents must take the blame because the children are underage and it's not society's fault some people are not fit parents.

My very dear friend knows this area well and lives not far from where it happened, everyone is just shell shocked absolutely heartbreaking! I have no words anymore

I am really tired of people talking about children having no respect. We learn respect by being shown it. Our children’s schools are crumbling, their teachers are exhausted, their youth centres and workers taken away. Many go to school and to bed hungry because we have let ourselves become a country, a society where the rich get ever richer and the poor more numerous and more desperate with every year that passes. Our children are bombarded with adverts for fast food and vapes and by harmful social media messages - all by companies (people) who see them as no more than a source of huge profits. We have let them hear that black people, disabled people, gay people, poor people are less good than other people. We leave them to live in mouldy, filthy, cold houses. Their streets are dangerous places full of cars and traffic fumes and their outdoor spaces keep shrinking. NHS and social services that might help them get the support they desperately need in school or practical or mental health support for struggling parents are cut to the bone. And when their parents fail to look after them they are taken away into a shabby, disgraceful ‘care’ system with poorly supported foster carers and residential homes run for profit. Where in all this are we teaching them the value of human life? Are we treating them with dignity and respect? Do they learn that they are valuable? If not, how will they learn that other people are? We get the children we deserve.

GN edited for me, but I think you know what I was saying.

essjay

because of their age, they probably will not be named if they are found guilty of this abhorrent crime, sorry but i think they and their parents should be named

100%

They should be sent somewhere to get re reducated.

How can we have people like that living here? Everyone blames coloured people for crime, but I suspect this is white kids hitting on a vulnerable old person just because he's Asian. Shame on them and their families

I am usually polite, but I just want to say " you and the horse you rode in on" to whoever brought these kids up.

This is awful,the parents should be called to account.Unfortunately some parents have no control over their offspring and have no idea where they are.If the police arrested the parents and fined them heavily these terrible incidents would hopefully decline.The fact that this poor man was Asian and had been harassed by these young thugs could have been aggravated by racism within their homes and on social media..

I think there is only one helping police now- a 14 year old. The rest have been released. Still a lot of info to come out before people can come to any conclusions.

OMG outrageous children nowadays are awful they know too much, get too much of course there is no real disapline

spabbygirl

closing youth clubs and sure start centres by the last gov't was a big mistake.

I imagine having nothing to do all day would have contributed not that that makes it excusable.

100 agree

because of their age, they probably will not be named if they are found guilty of this abhorrent crime, sorry but i think they and their parents should be named

Lots of current parents are evidently irresponsible and that reflects their own upbringing in the 60s and after when many social restraints were reduced.

MayBee70

All that hitting a child does is show them that it’s ok to hit other people.

Absolute agreement.
What the answer is though, I have no idea.
That poor man, it is terribly sad.

Is this a British problem? On public transport in Italy I was twice offered a seat from a young person. I think many countries have a stronger sense of family and therefore better respect for grandparents than us.

I pity schools having to address so many failings in modern life.

Yes it needs a debate.

Dangerous dogs, dangerous kids or anyone dangerous to others needs to have appropriate action.

Gin

It is quite unbelievable isn’t it? I have just this moment read the story out to my OH. What on earth have these children been watching to turn into such monsters and what will the parents be thinking? It is quite beyond belief.

I too believe there is far too much violence used as entertainment in films, video-games and so on. However, I am fairly certain that the main problem is that children are allowed to watch films, TV, play computer games without adult supervision, and many schools and parents seem to make no real effort to teach children any form of ethics or moral standards.

We are not born knowing how to treat others with consideration, after all. A new-born child's instincts are purely about survival - we teach our children to be less self-centred while they are growng up.

If we don't teach them this sucessfully, they will in many cases never learn to share or show other forms of consideration towards others.

So we need to start a debate about how children are being brought up. It is basically not a matter of youth clubs being closed, schools having less money to work with, or children being bored, but about what amount of adult supervision and interaction with children we deem necessary for children to grow up as healthy, kind and likeable individuals with a sense of responsiblity to the society they live in.