Unauthorised school absences

It's all very different now. The idea of going on holiday during term time would never have entired our minds. School terms were sancrosanct and school holidays were whatever we had saved up for and could afford - in our case usually a week on a Scottish island. We loved those holidays, usually shared with friends. We lived by the motto of "cut your coat according to your cloth". It was very different in the days when there were no credit cards...

Parents are doing this e in many countries, or at least some of them are.

IMO there is only one way to stop i;a whopping great fine for each day each child is away from school for an unauthorised holiday.

That would soon make it cheaper to go on holiday during the school holidays.

And if the fines are not paid, authorise the Inland revenue to collect them from the parents' wages before their employers pay out the monthly wage.

The fines do not go to the schools they go straight into LA coffers.

Just another money making exercise.

Pippa22

GrannyGravy13 that isn’t quite it, after two periods of unauthorised absence you are taken to court which results in having a criminal record.
This has already started and is law so no ifs or buts and understanding headteachers that’s it.

I know of one couple who both got fined for their child’s absence, refused to pay the original fine within the set time so it increased.

They refused to pay the increased fine and consequently were taken to court by the LA.

Pippa22

icanhandthemback, that sounds a fabulous trip with memorable experiences and was truly educational.
The same cannot usually be said of a holiday to Spain, Portugal etc. which is undoubtedly fun but not exactly educational round the pool each day and out for a pizza in the evening.

Even with your average holidays, there are ways of adding an educational touch especially with younger children. Not only are there the currency exchanges but looking at the different architecture, looking at the weather patterns, writing a journal, studying the language like finding words that are similar, etc.

Of course, if we had a National Curriculum like the Germans where you knew what children were going to be learning, you could even do the important bits so you weren't going to be missing them whilst out of school. The trouble is, we have a National Curriculum which is nothing like what the Government were originally intending and despite all the hard work of each individual school, it is a bit of a mishmash!

MissAdventure

Ah, so only people who can afford a better class of holiday can take their children in term time.

Looks like MissA snobbery is alive and thriving on GN

I agree completely Cabbie , children who miss important lessons have then to catch up at the ' expense ' of those children who were not AWL , a nightmare for teachers. I stand by my
view , we never did it ! If holidays are too expensive in school holidays there is a simple solution - don't go!!
Tough I know but education is a privilege.

Ah, so only people who can afford a better class of holiday can take their children in term time.

icanhandthemback, that sounds a fabulous trip with memorable experiences and was truly educational.
The same cannot usually be said of a holiday to Spain, Portugal etc. which is undoubtedly fun but not exactly educational round the pool each day and out for a pizza in the evening.

GrannyGravy13 that isn’t quite it, after two periods of unauthorised absence you are taken to court which results in having a criminal record.
This has already started and is law so no ifs or buts and understanding headteachers that’s it.

How times have changed. When my daughter was changing schools, I spoke to the new head and explained that my daughter had been invited on a 4 week trip to Guatemala, Costa Rica and Mexico which I was unsure whether to accept. He urged me to let her go saying that it would be a learning experience he couldn't replicated and that I could make it an educational experience by getting her to write a journal and do the currency conversions. When she came back from the trip, she was allowed to present her Experiences to the class which included visiting a pyramid, going to see a live volcano and a host of other things including looking at the different cultures.

As I recall, teachers started losing a lot of respect when they took strike action in the mid 80's. I speak as a mother and mother-in-law of teachers who can't take term time holidays. As regards school attendance, this is very tricky with a grandchild with autistic syndrome disorder and chronic school phobia. What to do?

Fae1

Never went away in school time or school holidays. Our backyard, local beaches and beauty spots for picnics. etc were our "holiday destinations" and after school activities were also mostly curtailed to the square mile. Yet, I have wonderful memories of my childhood and our summer holidays. Teachers cannot go away with their families during term time so why should others.

Teachers choose to work these hours ...they choose the profession ....they know they will have fixed hols ...... most other people can choose when they have their holidays...and as such can go way whenever they choose ....thats great you have lovely memories of you hols....so do my children who travelled abroad every year and often had the odd days off school to facilitate this..... people shouldn't have to make choices dependent on what others can or cannot do

I find the hypocrisy of the government/councils/authorities, etc, appalling.

They were all too eager to close the schools during Covid despite all the negative things that have happened to children since those closings - diminished education, young children with limited language skills, youngsters of all ages left with mental health issues.

Nobody cared about youngsters then, so why fine parents about a couple of weeks out of school for a holiday?

I find it difficult to accept that missing a week or two of school makes a lot of difference to the average kid. I was off school for nearly a term due to a road accident and lots of kids had one or more weeks off during Asian flu as did I. And the experience of spending some time in a foreign country could be beneficial. It didn't prevent me from passing exams and going to university. I realise this is probably a minority view.

Never went away in school time or school holidays. Our backyard, local beaches and beauty spots for picnics. etc were our "holiday destinations" and after school activities were also mostly curtailed to the square mile. Yet, I have wonderful memories of my childhood and our summer holidays. Teachers cannot go away with their families during term time so why should others.

M0nica

^Banning those who can only afford to go away in term time from doing so is just penalising those in society who have less disposable income than others. Another stick to beat the poor and just about managing who scrimp and save for a week away with family!^

Sorry, disagree, there are lots of ways of having a holiday without spending much money. We had one where we stayed home but planned a week of activities, some free, others costing a bit of money. No housework, no washing, ironing or gardening and food either bought in and quick to assemble with a couple of meals out. We had a very happy week.

Holiday expenditure was always fairly low on our priority list, but it never stopped us having enjoyable holdays. If a family can have a better holiday if they go in term time, then they can have a really enjoyable hliday elsewhere and in different ways in school holidays.

Like you say it about priorities.....and mine was always to travel as much as I could with my kids ....my AC are now the same with my GC ......a week at home doing activities just wouldn't cut it. They do that in the weeks they are not on holiday away.....My DD does try to work around school hols when she can .....her DC were only one day late starting this week.....but the difference in flight costs for the 4 of them was £500.....so it was a no brainer to come back a day later

Gymstagran

In response to Mollygo
I wasn't suggesting that children should take work away with them.

No but you’ve no idea how many parents ask.
I used to wonder, if the holiday was so important,
why they would inflict schoolwork on the children while they were away.
The truth is that many of them ask, but even back in the days when we used to supply it, they didn’t do it.

Even saying a simple, “Why not get them to keep a diary while they’re away, just a few sentences, you could remind them about punctuation and neat handwriting.” wasn’t as acceptable to most parents as a few worksheets that they would never do.

Occasionally I’d see a remarkable improvement in handwriting, which vanished on return to school. 😁
That improvement didn’t always apply to the spelling on the worksheet or the diary.

I still happily recommend suitable level story books for while they’re away, but nothing is so important as a few school reading scheme books to make sure that their friends in school don’t get ahead of them.

Yes I, along with most teachers, make the effort to support the children in picking up what they have missed, without it impacting on the needs of the rest of the class, but should that be expected when the missed learning is self-inflicted?

NB, in my experience, parents and grandparents never admit their child has fallen behind because of work missed in a term time holiday. It’s always poor teaching or my child doesn’t get the support it needs, or they soon caught up, and that blip in the test result was because they had an off day.
I’ve heard them all.

What about differentiation where pupils within a class are working at different levels or doesn't this happen now. Couldn't this accommodate catch up?

Yes differentiation happens. Often at the lower end, with TA support, for those children who struggle. Not so much support at the upper end.

I’m wondering how much hassle I’d get from parents if their child went home and said they had been moved from their usual place, especially into a group they’re accustomed to see needing help.
Or if they were greeted outside school with “I hear Jenny has been moved onto X group” with the knowing look which says “we all know what that means”.
Parents complain if I rearrange groups for any reason.

Calendargirl

^It was a private school. They didn’t seem particularly bothered^

I assume your parents were paying fees to the school?

If so, I can understand them not being bothered, still raking in the cash and not so much work teaching the little darlings!

They were paying fees. And thank you for calling me a little darling!

My daughter's school never issued any fines if a child missed school for a holiday. This was due to the fact that a major sporting event was held next door, every few years, and school closed its doors for almost a fortnight.

Our school holidays were geared to the holiday industry. We finished later in July and had one or two weeks in September and also a longer half term to allow hoteliers to take children on holiday in what was considered out of season.
The Lancashire Wakes weeks have a rolling programme of school closures to coincide with factory closures as originally a group of men used to go from town to town cleaning the boilers. Bolton won out as it was one of the first and so holiday costs were a lot less then,
My GS has two weeks holiday at either the October or June half term with cheaper holiday rates but still warmer weather in the Mediterranean .
I know exams dictate some holiday times but there should be areas of compromise within school areas

It must make life very difficult for teachers especially if a new topic has been started and they then have to find the time to help pupils catch up on what has been missed. On the other hand if they were ill then the same would have to be done. If I was a parent nowadays I would be seriously tempted to pay a fine and get a much cheaper or longer holiday especially if children were in primary years.

Schools can be ridiculous about even taking a short time off, coming up to the end of term when all they were doing the last afternoon was watching films etc our school fussed about an afternoon off to do an international event which was much more educational
We never went on package holidays and only ever had extra bits of time off for things like distant family weddings/funerals etc
Sometimes what you do out of school.is even more educational than what is happening inside school and that is so different from going to Benidorm or suchlike

Katek

3 DC teach in senior school, 2 heads of department and 1 depute head teacher. They all have children. They have no option other that to take holidays in holiday time and have to budget for any additional costs. My son finished school on the Friday and Saturday morning they drove to Wales for a 2 week holiday. Foreign holidays have sometimes been taken at half term but are usually at a Eurocamp site or similar. I think it's called cutting your cloth to suit.

Some parents are unable to book annual leave during the school holidays, a problem teachers don't face. They also don't have to work Christmas Day, Easter or bank holidays like for example my policeman son amongst many others, so surely it's a bit of a trade off?

In a work environment there will often be many people with school age children. Not everybody can always be accommodated during the 6 weeks of summer holiday. I managed to only have mine out of primary school once, but that did mean not having a holiday together as a family some years. I could never afford to take my four children on a foreign holiday, that was something they had to do as a school trip (hmm one took place during term time) or as independent adults.

I am not blanket condoning nor condemning holidays during school time, but think there should be more understanding of why this sometimes happens, and a more flexible approach taken. Academically how does a week's absence because of illness differ from a week's absence for a holiday?

Btw,it’s my understanding that it’s not the Heads of school dining, but the LA at the instigation of Dept of Education.

It’s not just holidays abroad that are extortionately priced - caravan holidays, cottages, flats camping sites etc in the UK push their prices right up during the school holidays. Some people including teachers don’t always appreciate that it can be difficult for an employee to get their annual leave approved during the school holidays especially in a company where there are a lot of people who have school age children and everyone wants time off at the same time. It can be a real juggling act and other members of staff without children often get resentful that they can’t take time off during these times.
When I was a child we always went away during the school terms for this reason and no one batted an eye lid.
When I asked the school in the 80s if I could take my son out for a couple of days for a short break at the beginning of a new term (I was worried it would be disruptive for him), the headteacher told us to go ahead - he said disruption is a part of life and he needs to get used to it….. how times have changed.