Winter fuel allowance result

biglouis

*Many pensioners do not need WFA. I’d increase the basic pension to the living wage equivalent, with the result more well off pensioners would pay tax and others spared the need to run the gauntlet of pension credit applications*

This is one solution to the problem.

If someone argues why should pensioners be paid the same as "working families" my answer to that is they are still in process of "making" their contribution to the community. We have already "made" ours. Many pensioners are still working - if not in the employed/self employed economy they work as volunteers, carers and childminders.

The contribution of older people is disgracefully under valued.

It certainly is

& who said on here we have to stop scaremongering & wait for the budget?

Dickens

sharon103

Cossy

Apologies, I didn’t mean to offend or upset anyone.

I made a thoughtless comment

I know what you mean Cossy.
Older people are made of harder stuff.
Don't worry about it.

No offence intended but I think someone has already said, people need to have an acceptable air temperature especially if frail or have illness.
I know when my mum was alive with dementia, 24hour care by family, she was supplied with a disc thermometer to make sure the air was above 60 degrees.

...^but I think someone has already said, people need to have an acceptable air temperature especially if frail or have illness.^

It was me.

My late mother, an SRN, told me about this decades ago. Anyone with, or susceptible to, chest infections, lung diseases, or 'heart problems' needs to maintain an adequately warm air temperature. Including at night, when the temperature drops.

When the energy price cap increases in October - this will leave many of those just above the PC limit in a particularly difficult position, especially if, as predicted, it is a very cold winter.

And the 'bar' is set very low, too.

I don't like to over-dramatise, but I do wonder how many older people will end up in hospital if they cannot afford to heat their homes adequately? We know already that the winter months see a surge in the number of elderly admitted to hospital wards.

Hospitalsiation is one of the most significant expenses for the NHS. One night in a hospital bed costs over £400, excluding any treatment or medication.

Thank you Dickens and the additional info.

My mum lived with my 2 brothers at the time. they were her main carers. She had her bed downstairs at the time for the last 3 years of her life.
They always kept the fire on low during the night as well.
There will be deaths because of the cuts.
I've just read of an elderly man who fought in the 2nd world war and can't get pension credit as he has a small pension.

If anyone is interested here is a link to MP's who voted for, against and abstained

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1946467/how-my-mp-voted-winter-fuel-payments

Many pensioners do not need WFA. I’d increase the basic pension to the living wage equivalent, with the result more well off pensioners would pay tax and others spared the need to run the gauntlet of pension credit applications

This is one solution to the problem.

If someone argues why should pensioners be paid the same as "working families" my answer to that is they are still in process of "making" their contribution to the community. We have already "made" ours. Many pensioners are still working - if not in the employed/self employed economy they work as volunteers, carers and childminders.

The contribution of older people is disgracefully under valued.

Eloethan

I do think it is wrong that money was being paid to people who were very well off. But the pension credit criteria for money being awarded is a very blunt instrument. However, I suppose any other form of means testing would be a bureaucratic nightmare - time-consuming and expensive.

The reason the WFA was paid to those pensioners who don't need it is because it would be more expensive to means-test it.

And, means-testing is not a one-off - every year you have to confirm your means. So a continuous, and expensive, process.

Paying it to all pensioners was the cheapest way for making sure it got to those who really needed it.

There is a list of how MPs voted, I am shocked, our lib dem mp voted for the cut.

I would not be surprised if they did an up to date council tax banding exercise to catch the very many who live in old properties in low bands.

Cossy, I didnt vote for them either, I also votedReform.

I agree with Eloethan’s post

Many pensioners do not need WFA. I’d increase the basic pension to the living wage equivalent, with the result more well off pensioners would pay tax and others spared the need to run the gauntlet of pension credit applications.

I chose to remain in our 4 bed family home when my husband died. I’m happy here an can ‘manage’. If I couldn’t, I;d sell up and down size. We’d looked into various options in our early 60’s when we were young enough to uproot ourselves. We failed to find the perfect bungalow so looked at finances as well as nearby bus stop, GP, library, good hospitals etc. We also future proofed by putting a wet room, toilet in what had been the garage.
I’m surprised some people don’t see us older people as responsible for planning for our older age

I think Starmer has an enormously difficult job on his hands. Whatever he does will enrage somebody. It was pretty obvious that, given the total mess that the previous government has made of everything over the last 14 years, difficult decisions would need to be taken to try and restore this country to some sort of normality.

We, and all of the people we know, say that they did not need the winter fuel allowance. Some of them gave a part of it, or all of it, to charity. There are probably a fair number of pensioners who felt somewhat uncomfortable about receiving extra money that they didn't really need.

I do think it is wrong that money was being paid to people who were very well off. But the pension credit criteria for money being awarded is a very blunt instrument. However, I suppose any other form of means testing would be a bureaucratic nightmare - time-consuming and expensive.

Maybe if the scheme could have been altered so that pensioners were given the option to decline the payment, some of the money would have been saved. Though I suppose there are always people who, however well off they are, won't turn down some free money.

I think people who own properties that are much larger than they require at least have the option to downsize and release some capital The increasing number of people - particularly younger people - who cannot afford to buy a home, have no such option. Many young families are paying exorbitant rents, which they may have to pay in perpetuity.

sharon103

Cossy

Apologies, I didn’t mean to offend or upset anyone.

I made a thoughtless comment

I know what you mean Cossy.
Older people are made of harder stuff.
Don't worry about it.

No offence intended but I think someone has already said, people need to have an acceptable air temperature especially if frail or have illness.
I know when my mum was alive with dementia, 24hour care by family, she was supplied with a disc thermometer to make sure the air was above 60 degrees.

...^but I think someone has already said, people need to have an acceptable air temperature especially if frail or have illness.^

It was me.

My late mother, an SRN, told me about this decades ago. Anyone with, or susceptible to, chest infections, lung diseases, or 'heart problems' needs to maintain an adequately warm air temperature. Including at night, when the temperature drops.

When the energy price cap increases in October - this will leave many of those just above the PC limit in a particularly difficult position, especially if, as predicted, it is a very cold winter.

And the 'bar' is set very low, too.

I don't like to over-dramatise, but I do wonder how many older people will end up in hospital if they cannot afford to heat their homes adequately? We know already that the winter months see a surge in the number of elderly admitted to hospital wards.

Hospitalsiation is one of the most significant expenses for the NHS. One night in a hospital bed costs over £400, excluding any treatment or medication.

The problem with any ‘means tested benefit or allowance is the means testing itself. Many pensioners with a tiny income just above the qualifying level for pension credit -will really struggle. I think if the WFA had to be means tested it should not have applied to the oldest and frailest of pensioners. The DWP know all pensioners birth dates- surely they could have kept the WFA for both those on pension credit and the very elderly - perhaps the over 80s- ( to protect some of the most vulnerable to cold) without it being too complicated?

Cossy

Apologies, I didn’t mean to offend or upset anyone.

I made a thoughtless comment

I know what you mean Cossy.
Older people are made of harder stuff.
Don't worry about it.

No offence intended but I think someone has already said, people need to have an acceptable air temperature especially if frail or have illness.
I know when my mum was alive with dementia, 24hour care by family, she was supplied with a disc thermometer to make sure the air was above 60 degrees.

I think there have been some first class discussions lately, without anyone getting too offended.
Considering the opposing opinions, and the subject matter.

eazybee

^However, most pensioners WILL manage, they will do what our mothers and grandmothers did, put on a cardigan, or use a blanket when sitting on the sofa.^

What a patronising comment. People in cold homes do that already, also people who do not wish to waste precious resources.

Agree.

They can even throw a coat on the bed at night when the temperature drops, like our forbears did.

No-one should just have to 'manage' in this day and age. Old or young.

And certainly not when those making these 'difficult' decisions are living in warm houses and working in warm offices courtesy of the taxpayers - eating subsidised meals and drinking subsidised alcohol.

... I'm sick of hearing about the 'black hole' at every conceivable opportunity by this government and being warned about worse to come.

Echoing Bridget from a small Cotswolds town (WEST ENGLAND BYLINES)

"After the hard years that we have all already been through, people need hope again. Not lectures about how it’s going to get worse before it gets better."

"I am too old to wait for jam tomorrow."

Apologies, I didn’t mean to offend or upset anyone.

I made a thoughtless comment

For the past 2 winters we have not had our heating on past 6pm in the evening. This is because we purchased electrically heated throws which cost pennies to run. We are not hard up but didn’t like paying so much extra in fuel bills. If you can afford the expense they are well worth having as they have up to 10 heat settings. As advice I would buy the largest size as they cover you better. They really do work.

Whilst we don’t need the WFP we did give ours to our DD as she has young children, a mortgage, car purchase payments and childcare costs on the days GP’s don’t have them. They have never been able to afford a summer holiday.

Sad day.

MissAdventure

Religious education should teach about all religions.

It's the only way we will get to the point of having some inclusiveness, and it does no harm to learn the basics from a young age.

I agree.

BigBopper

COSSY STATED........However, most pensioners WILL manage, they will do what our mothers and grandmothers did, put on a cardigan, or use a blanket when sitting on the sofa.

Rubbish

What you don't seem to realise is that without heating in your home your house will deteriorate, damp, mould and frozen pipes. This will then need building work to put things right.

Then bronchitis, pneumonia more hospital visits, more NHS expense.

I will be putting my heating on whether I can afford it or not and if I fall behind with bills, then they can lock me up and I can have a nice warm prison cell, three meals a day and someone to wash my clothes. I am nearly 82 years of age and think sod them all.

Good for you. I agree.
I don't think they're allowed to cut off gas and electric if people are pensioners.
I've just read that they're considering stopping bus passes but we will have to see.
All will be revealed in the budget.

eazybee

^However, most pensioners WILL manage, they will do what our mothers and grandmothers did, put on a cardigan, or use a blanket when sitting on the sofa.^

What a patronising comment. People in cold homes do that already, also people who do not wish to waste precious resources.

It wasn’t meant to be in any way patronising, in fact totally the opposite. I genuinely believe a lot of pensioners are made of sterner stuff and will make it work, it’s what I meant.

I’m not suggesting this is right though or that they should have too.

BevSec

The mark of a caring government is how well the vulnerable in society are cared for. Two Tier not doing well so far. I too cannot believe that anyone voted for this vile Government.

Almost as vile as the govt preceding them!

Have scanned the posts and don't see this link anywhere:
pensioncreditcalculator.dwp.gov.uk/pension-credit-calculator-form.php?stage=50 It is definitely worth checking for eligibility. - "There isn’t a savings limit for Pension Credit. However, if you have over £10,000 in savings, this will affect how much you receive.
If you're a mixed age couple (meaning only one of you is over State Pension age), you normally have to claim Universal Credit until you've both reached State Pension age." - Age UK...

Rekarie

There was a panellist on Jeremy Vine this morning. She was rather loud insisting that if a pensioner owns a million pound house they don't need help with fuel.

I beg to differ. Some people have owned their homes for decades. Obviously they didn't pay a million for it.

My neighbour was widowed in her 60s. She stayed in the family home and coped well. However she was cash poor as many people are.

The panellist kept going on about downsizing. As if it was simple. I'm sure most of us know the stress of buying/selling property. Why should she have to sell her home? And who would assist.

It's just unfair

OK, but at least the person with the £1m house (TBH nothing very unusual around here, nothing special family houses) does at least have the option of downsizing to a flat. Around here a reasonable one would still be priced at half a million plus.

A good many poorer pensioners will be in rented accommodation, with no such option at all.