Peace of Mind

Can someone please explain to me how the connection between train drivers and winter fuel payment works? I thought they came from entirely separate budgets, but maybe I've misunderstood. I know it's not as simple as saying that money being spent from one budget could be given to another -or have I got that wrong?

There is a closer link when it comes to doctors, as older people are far more likely to need healthcare than younger ones, so the more doctors we have in the system the better, but train drivers? The way I see it we need them to get people to work, in order for the economy to work better and leave money spare to give people in extra payments - am I wrong?

"Can I add that there are grants for upping your home’s insulation and in some cases more efficient CH boilers."

Some of us are not quite poor enough yet! I tried for this and was given an interest free loan for £5,000
About half of the actual bill which I'll be paying off for the next 5 years.
I had to fill in reams of forms and do everything on-line which at my age is really hard. I am pleased with my new gas boiler but the help didnt extend to double glazing, solar
panels or airsource heat pumps because, like me, my house is too old.

It is very sad that so much scaremongering is going on since the Labour Party took office. Regarding prescriptions, I think they may take away free prescriptions between 60 and retirement age, this seems just. If they take them away completely you can buy yearly passes and I don’t think they would stop free prescriptions for cancer patients. Regarding bus passes these are issued by local authorities and possibly those who are struggling may have to make changes. What local authorities offer pensioners varies anyway, my sister-in-law who lives in the West Midlands gets free bus travel in England and train travel in the West Midlands, in Telford and Wrekin we get free bus travel in England. It is a matter of wait and see rather than worry about what might happen.

It is the Labour party doing this NOW! No good faking stories about the Conservatives scaremongering. You can’t go on blaming them for everything when LP are in power.

It was mentioned briefly on the news last night about the LP not ruling out stopping bus passes. Time for people to get their heads out of the sand and accept that everyone is going to have to tighten their belts and as usual its the most vulnerable who will be affected.

It is no comfort at the end of the month when you are trying to balance your housekeeping bills and scraping around for every penny to be told “don’t worry it’s just scaremongering.”

Marg75
If the outlook is so dire please tell why Amazo, Microsoft, Google investing 10s of billions in this country.
And yes, I do know that the business was done before the election. But they havnt pulled out, have they 🤷‍♀️

karmalady I am with you all the way. To others that are backing Starmer & Reeves, we are above the limit for pension credit, I have just fixed our electricity tariff, we've spent a fair bit of money insulating the roof space. The WFA was a great help last winter to counteract the rising electricity costs. That's what this is all about, we shouldn't have to dip into savings except for unexpected large expenditure.

Again, I am not supporting the way the WFP was withdrawn. What I am saying is that 14 years is a long time and two months is not.

If your house had been neglected for 14 years, would you be moaning at the builders/decorators for not having it back to beautiful immediately after starting, or would you give them time to do repairs instead of painting over the cracks?

Doodledog

Again, I am not supporting the way the WFP was withdrawn. What I am saying is that 14 years is a long time and two months is not.

If your house had been neglected for 14 years, would you be moaning at the builders/decorators for not having it back to beautiful immediately after starting, or would you give them time to do repairs instead of painting over the cracks?

Most people who will be affected by all these cuts do not own their own homes.

Ali23

Sorry you feel so vulnerable, Marg75.

Personally I feel the opposite because I think that the last government were dishonest and created an illusion that things were improving whilst our social institutions were crumbling and the gap between rich and poor was growing.

So I actually felt more insecure before this government gained control. Now I know things are tight but there is an honesty that had been missing since before the pandemic.

I’m hoping that we are heading for solvency as a nation.

I voted for Labour, and I’m now so torn!

I’m trying my best to be positive, but frankly it’s hard!

I don’t think it’s right that winter fuel allowance is a universal benefit BUT I also think the Labour Party have got things wrong with stopping this so abruptly and and the cut off levels being so low.

It’s hard to be optimistic at the moment.

Doodledog

Again, I am not supporting the way the WFP was withdrawn. What I am saying is that 14 years is a long time and two months is not.

If your house had been neglected for 14 years, would you be moaning at the builders/decorators for not having it back to beautiful immediately after starting, or would you give them time to do repairs instead of painting over the cracks?

Using that logic no Government can be held responsible for its actions/decisions as all the ills of the Country are the other sides/previous cohorts fault.

Doodledog

Can someone please explain to me how the connection between train drivers and winter fuel payment works? I thought they came from entirely separate budgets, but maybe I've misunderstood. I know it's not as simple as saying that money being spent from one budget could be given to another -or have I got that wrong?

There is a closer link when it comes to doctors, as older people are far more likely to need healthcare than younger ones, so the more doctors we have in the system the better, but train drivers? The way I see it we need them to get people to work, in order for the economy to work better and leave money spare to give people in extra payments - am I wrong?

I think you’re right. All budgets are completely separate, and surely those lines which are currently franchised will pay their own drivers?

We do need trains, we do need nurses and doctors. We need teachers. We need to value our public sectors workers who’ve had a terrible deal for the last 14 years.

But, I’m having a real “wobble” with my support for Labour at the moment

Using that logic no Government can be held responsible for its actions/decisions as all the ills of the Country are the other sides/previous cohorts fault.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? All I’m saying is that no new administration can simultaneously correct the mistakes of the previous one and pursue its own agenda within weeks of taking office. I didn’t say they can’t be held responsible- just that we should give them time.

Cabbie21

To all who are worried about bills this coming winter.
Check Pension Credit eligibility.
Ask your energy supplier for support, better tariffs- maybe they have a fund for more vulnerable clients?
Check with your Local Authority. They have access to Hardship Funds- under various names- which are not always well publicised. Often they are not generally accessible except through advice agencies etc. but money is there for those who need it.

👏👏👏

I agree with you, Marg75. I have been shocked and alarmed by the way this new Labour government is behaving, Starmer, Reeves and Rayner in particular. The cut to the winter fuel allowance may not damage many pensioners it but will harm some, and seems to be a foretaste of things to come. Very little advance warning and a point-blank removal, rather than attaching to income and need. A complete lack of understanding that many pensioners, having worked all their lives and saved for their old age, do not wish to claim pension credit; it is to do with pride, of which people like Rayner and Reeves (who have claimed £5,000 and £3,700 respectively in energy allowances )have no concept.
Starmer has proved to have feet of clay, dull and un-inspirational, offering no argument other than blaming everything on the Tories. He claims to be improving things for 'working people' but not those who have worked, and is clearly in thrall to the Unions, witness the unnecessary payments to the train drivers and junior doctors. Look to them for some of the problems within the NHS.
I think that there is a deliberate and concerted effort from the Tory press to demonise Starmer and try to bring Labour down.
Nonsense. Considering the relentless onslaught from labour activists ever since 2019 it is no surprise that Tories, and others, are criticising Labour's woeful government. The Labour activists on here really cannot tolerate any criticism.Because of tactical voting we are saddled with a Parliament full of MPs who have no idea of the feelings of their constituents, and I think in the months to come, many will be shocked.

BlueBelle wrote, and I endorse:

"I m not very well off but I am a bit above the thresh hold so will lose my winter payment and who knows what else BUT I m willing to go along with all that because I believe it will improve the country on the whole eventually
I feel much safer under a grown up prime minister than the last government
I hate the right wing press for the fear it whips up amongst all the country but particularly elderly folks and a lot of it is totally untrue and with A1 I wonder how much is even written by a non human "

Lots of scaremongering from those parts of the media with a political axe to grind.

There was absolute sense in revisiting the winter fuel allowance - it could not possibly make sense for it to go to rich pensioners who have no need of it - a waste of public funds for sure. This is to be offset by honouring the triple lock on retirement pensions. Those in need will still get the fuel allowance. The problem of course is there will always be people on the margins of the cut-off points who will be cross about this - but the cut-off point (entitlement to Pension Credit) makes sense.

Given time I am sure that the government will be looking at all avenues to recoup revenue where it can - and this is what they should be doing.

I absolutely do not begrudge the junior doctors their pay rise - the situation was utterly immoral - doctors working ridiculously long hours to the detriment of their health and patient safety - they deserve every penny. If we do not try and keep up with decent salaries abroad we will simply lose them and the NHS will be even deeper in the mire. Until we are able to retain and recruit the doctors we cannot improve their working conditions - it is a vicious circle. Hopefully the pay rise will have helped to retain some who might otherwise have been lost.

I agree, Luckygirl. Junior doctors have such a lot of merit and and benefit people so much that we need to retain their services even at the cost of paying them enough to meet their demands.

Love the poem Doodledog - I think I'm going go memorise it !

Marg - do not worry about things unduly . Carry on as you are. All will be well.

Good advice from everyone on here to.

I agree with you, Margaret, and feel the same. Although I was glad to see the back the Tories I didn't vote for Labour, choosing Reform instead. Have you noticed how Reeves and Starmer are standing up for workers? I only stopped being a worker when I became a pensioner (and a WASPI to boot) so I'm galled to hear striking workers being given above inflation pay rises at the expense of meagre benefits like WFP being the only thing I've ever received and only once - last winter. Labour can't keeping bemoaning the £22billion black hole left by the Tories when £9billion of that figure is of their making in awarding these pay rises. Stealing the WFP from 10million so pensioners like us saves only £1.2billion so expect to lose even more

Luckygirl3 Given time I am sure that the government will be looking at all avenues to recoup revenue where it can - and this is what they should be doing.

Absolutely as they should and must......but do you not appreciate the concern/fear that withdrawing pensioner's WFA was the very first thing that came to mind? Not getting Amazon and the like to pay their rightful share of taxation, not to perhaps immediately withdraw the subsidies afforded to very well paid MPs on their food (and alcohol!) in the HOC, not immediately stopping any other expenditure in any other area, but instead targeting a cohort who have zero power to fight back. I'm not against withdrawal of WFA from wealthier pensioners, but this decision to be implemented immediately with no time to plan, adjust budgets etc is unnecessarily harsh and will reap such a tiny amount in the greater picture. Stopping MPs subsidies would achieve a much smaller return than stopping WFA but would at least indicate an awareness of their unnecessary handouts.

I don't think Starmer is looking after the 'whole country' as someone said I think the LP has made it clear that they are looking after 'working people' which is their constant comment and seemingly excludes pensioners. It seems to me they share the belief of many young people that pensioners are a drain on society, have always had it good and don't deserve more help.
I was interested to read yesterday that the LP had previously challenged the Conservatives many times on not getting rid of the WFP for pensioners and now they've done exactly that themselves. For many years the LP manifesto has included a promise to maintain this payment but not this year!

Tuaim

I don't know what has happened with this labour government. They should have had some much higher cap when it came to the winter fuel cap. I do understand that people with very good incomes may not need it and this will be reflected in the amount of income tax they pay. If people do pay a good amount of income tax, then I do understand them not being eligible. But why target the middle and lower income pensioners.?

I agree those who pay higher rate of income tax to loose WFA . It does feel if the pensioners are being picked on. I am concerned about the future.

I think the cut off point was/is too low for WFA. I think it would have been better to announce it as part of a package of all the measures in the budget to see the whole picture across the board and introduce it for 2025.

In looking at unnecessary expenses I've said several times MP's need to show willing but why do we forget the non public sector, where we are not scrutinising earnings, bonuses, pay outs in say Thames Water to shareholders, banks, other big organisations where many are sitting pretty willingly watching the tides of criticism against public sector workers.

I'm astonished about any illusion that we were safe and OK until the election. anyone who was greatly in need of NHS or care services could not be unaware of the way things were going. and Sunak was promising tax cuts for goodness sake, where do we think they would have fallen so it didn't affect us pensioners?

I agree with you orly there has to be many more ways to raise money without raiding the WFA, it's disgraceful. The only members of society who cannot fight back. Seen as an easy target. It'll come back and bite them of that I'm sure.

Doodledog

What has happened with this Labour government is easy to understand. They have to make up for years of corruption and incompetence, and this will not be easy for anyone.

I agree that there will be some older people who will struggle with the WFP withdrawal, and the timing and delivery were atrocious, but KS is governing the whole country - not just pensioners - and it is not just pensioners who are poor. Money that would have gone to older people who can afford cruises and champagne can (and should) be diverted to children who are going to school hungry. I don’t understand how anyone can argue otherwise.

Means-testing is always iniquitous. Always. But there may be announcements of measures in the budget that will help those who needed the payment but won’t get it - I hope so.

Very well said!