Lucy Letby, Unanswered Questions.

MissAdventure

Crime cases and unsolved mysteries can draw you in, I know.

There is a certain famous case that I've only recently started looking into, and now I'm getting sucked into looking at "embedded confessions" and body language.

I have been following the same case. I am still unsure whether or not the suspect they finally arrested for it is the perpetrator.

Thank you gentleshores

According to this article, the baby had had 5 unsuccessful attempts at being intubed since birth a few hours earlier and Dr Jayaram may have made some mistakes. The specialist hospital later said the baby had had suboptimal care at the Chester hospital. Also testimony from the other nurse present.

lawhealthandtech.substack.com/p/lucy-letby-the-trial-for-baby-k

Two years later, was after she had been arrested however, and knew what she was being accused of so may well have looked up parents of babies at that time.

But Lucy Letby then searched for Baby K's parents two years later on Facebook apparently. Having said she didn't really have any memory of that baby other than that she was very premature.

The jury couldn't reach a verdict on "attempted murder" of Baby K at the original trial. The prosecution later asked for a retrial of that case (the retrial in July this year). The jury found her guilty at the retrial after only three and a half hours. The only evidence was Dr Jayaram's testimony.

She appealed against this second trial recently and her Barrister said the second trial shouldn't have gone ahead as it the jury would have been prejudiced by all the media calling her a baby murderer, when she was convicted at the first trial.

Baby K was very ill, which is why she was later transferred to a more specialised hospital neonatal unit where she apparently died 3 days later - which was nothing to do with Lucy Letby.

The charge was for "attempted murder" based on Dr Jayaram's testimony.

The cross examination of Dr Jayaram by the defence (part of it).

"Under cross-examination, Mr Myers accused Dr Jayaram of fabricating the silenced alarms.

He said: “What I am suggesting to you is you have said things to create suspicion where it did not exist.

“If you had seen anything like you are suggesting you would have gone to police or raised it with managers.”

He also noted that rather than removing Letby from the ward immediately, Dr Jayaram was content to allow her to finish her shift and to continue looking after Child K for the next four hours."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/19/doctor-report-lucy-letby-attempted-murder-baby-trial/

Maybe they did try to but I think the whole court room was already convinced of her guilt. Just hearing him saying that would have convinced people. As he was a Doctor.

One thing that I think was missing was the anonymous Doctor she was "allegedly" having an affair with (which both she and the Doctor denied). He wasn't cross examined.

Thank you again gentleshores, more food for thought. The defence should have pulled Dr Jayaram to pieces. Why didn't he report the incident at least, if it happened. That's gross negligence on his part. Unbelievable.

MissAdventure

It's quite a controversial case, gentleshores and I don't want to offend anyone.
No comment.

That's very tantalising!

This is an insulin expert explaining why the lab results for the immunoassay tests aren't reliable - they can easily give false highs and lows. And it needs a more specific follow up test. That wasn't done because the babies got better and nobody had suspicions at the time. Neonates commonly have low blood sugar issues.

Because they didn't have the follow up tests to prove it to a criminal level, the prosecution relied on the fact the babies blood sugar went up and down. Which apparently is very common with neonates (lots of reasons).

The reason the immunoassay test is unreliable is because it uses antibodies to produce a result - but the particular baby's own antibodies can skew the results. Especially if the baby has an infection and producing a lot more antibodies.

The prosecution then tried to create a scenario that even though Lucy Letby wasn't there and didn't put the TPN bags up, she "might" have gone to the fridge and spiked the bags the day before. That is a lot of supposition.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXhe0UbEwg

Just to add to the Dr Jayaram incident. He didn't tell anyone about it at the time - not even other Doctors. And he continued to work with Lucy Letby for another four months apparently.

The Judge at the recent appeal hearing said his evidence was inconsistent with contemporaneous evidence and had never been mentioned before until the trial.

Ah ok :-)

It's quite a controversial case, gentleshores and I don't want to offend anyone.
No comment.

Sorry that should say if an alarm "didn't" go off.

His point was he was suggesting she deliberately dislodged the breathing tube and said it's virtually unheard of for neonates to do that themselves and he had never seen that before. That has been widely criticised with two senior neonatologists saying they dislodge breathing tubes themselves a lot and they regularly need putting back. They only have to move their head a centimetre. So it depends how long she had been there and whether she noticed the oxygen levels had gone down. Maybe they hadn't gone down much (or only just started to go down) if an alarm went off.

But there was no evidence - just testimony from the Doctor and his suspicion. He is more likely to be believed and maybe he was right.

That was Dr Jayaram's testimony. I think he said there was no alarm going off but he could see the oxygen levels were down on the monitor and she was standing there not doing anything and the breathing tube was dislodged. His testimony counted for a lot at the trial I believe. But later he was criticised as he hadn't mentioned it before or made any notes about it, and also contradicted himself apparently.

He came in when she was there and saw the oxygen levels had dropped. And no alarm had gone off. It's possible he came in just as she noticed but I agree, if it's true, then it does look suspicious - and he already had suspicions about her.

It was his word against hers on that one.

As an ex and old neonatal nurse what I cannot understand it was reported that a baby’s alarm system went off low oxygen levels low heart rate and she apparently just stood there doing nothing.
Re TPN bags it is easy to add drugs into the bags.
Poor parents my heart goes out to them.

Do tell more :-)

Crime cases and unsolved mysteries can draw you in, I know.

There is a certain famous case that I've only recently started looking into, and now I'm getting sucked into looking at "embedded confessions" and body language.

I might add our court case was much more general and certainly not a murder case! But lawyers - hmm. Any Barrister can take on a case either as prosecution or defence - and they act in their client's best interests. And they like to win. It's how they gain a reputation. It's not always about reaching the truth but about how the law works. Which I suppose is why there are sometimes miscarriages of justice.

I'm a former nurse as well so it seemed unthinkable and obviously terrible if true. But terrible if not true as well. There are good and not good people in most professions.

OldFrill

Please continue to post gentleshores. I very much appreciate your input. I too think the conviction must be proved safe.

Thank you.

I probably spend too much time on the internet . It was a case that made me think about it at the time and then I suppose it brings out the curiosity. But I really should just get on with life and see what happens.

I do get interested in the legal side of things sometimes as although I'm no expert, we were involved in a court case ourselves once and learned that who represents you can make a huge difference.

All I know now is she has a new Barrister who has a load of expert witnesses lined up and is taking it to the Criminal Cases Review Commission next (CCRC). That couldn't happen until the latest appeal failed. Apparently it can take years though - and might fail also. I think the only way they can look at it again is if there is some new evidence. They can then get a further appeal organised if they take the case on.

Jaxjacky

Oreo

You’re very invested in this case gentleshores?

I thought the same with some concern.

Same here.

Please continue to post gentleshores. I very much appreciate your input. I too think the conviction must be proved safe.