People that will not help themselves.

Keepingquiet said: I think there is some psychological trauma there.

I don't know what the answer is except just let her be who she is. We can all criticize the way others live their lives but she is free to make her own decisions.

It is up to you whether you 'help' her or not but I have a saying that 'doing is not always caring' maybe she needs some space to think this through.

I am doing the same thing with a family member just now but for different reasons.

I wish both you and your friend well. Take her out for coffee- go for walks but don't offer to 'do' for her, sometimes just being with people is bette

KeepingQuiet - I agree. Kindness matters and we need to be kind with some wisdom too. The good intention is really important, plus a pause to reflect and ask "is this really helping? What might be a better way to help?'

Hello, Sago.

I believe you have made the correct decision to step back, because if not, your dear friend is going to continue to rely on you for everything she cannot or will not do for herself.
I’d buy her one of those small notebooks with an alphabetical index every few pages. Write in contact details for Plumber, Electrician, Doctor, Dentist, Joiner, Gardiner, Social Services, Minister/Pastor/Priest/Church Elder and anyone else you can think of that she might need and tell her from now on, she needs to use it. Just tell her very kindly that you may not always be around and if she needs help, she MUST get into the habit of ringing whoever she needs, instead of you.

If she gets a bit frosty, tough - she will either get over it or not, but you have done her a service giving her the contacts, whether she realised it or not.

maybe her hubby did everything and now she is like a child

It is laziness. My sons help me with 'masculine' jobs like sorting computer problems and understanding politics. They even praise me for being interested in so many things 'at my age' and I lap it all up. But I know old age is no excuse for opting out of responsibilities.

My sister has been averse to using modern technology. Her life could have been so much better if she had learned to use a laptop or ipad.

She very reluctantly got a mobile phone when we insisted and complained to me about the cost of it all. I don’t think she ever uses it now. She lives in Italy and when she used to visit the U.K. she would give some stranger my mobile number and get them to contact me to say where she was. There was an minor emergency one time when she was flying back to Italy and her daughter had been delayed in meeting her. We made numerous calls to her hotel in the U.K. where she was staying in order to pass on the message only to find that hotel had no telephone service in the rooms for visitors.

Another friend is reluctantly learning how to use an iPhone and when I asked her how she was getting on with her lessons from the U3A she gave the impression she had given up!

My 98 year old friend realised she was cut off from communication and got her daughter to teach her Whatsapp. She is now very proficient. 👍

I feel your pain!

At the very beginning of lockdown my husband started to help a neighbour who lives several houses away.

Over the years this situation has escalated and my husband (foolishly) gave her his mobile number. She rings every day, some days twice or more.

She is an absolute nightmare and now owes us money and becomes quite angry if DH says no to giving her more, or doing her shopping, or all the other things she asks him to do!

I’ve started to really dislike her!

It’s a case of taking advantage of a genuine two way friendship - and now it’s developed into ‘one gives constantly and the other takes constantly’. We’re all getting older and it becomes more important to take good care of ourselves first - and that includes mentally as well as physically. This person’s habits and lifestyle has - quite obviously - now become a thorn in your side. My recommendation would be gracefully exit from the friendship …..it’s certainly not serving you well ……it’s just too one sided!

Caleo

It is laziness. My sons help me with 'masculine' jobs like sorting computer problems and understanding politics. They even praise me for being interested in so many things 'at my age' and I lap it all up. But I know old age is no excuse for opting out of responsibilities.

Really, Caleo!! Sorting computer problems and understanding politics are not 'masculine jobs'!

If she needs so much help maybe you could suggest it may be time to move into sheltered accommodation? There they have people to help with such things dont they?, some kind of 'attached carer' or caretaker? Also i would mention at drs surgery about her not taking her pills, maybe she could have an appt with gp or nurse, or a community nurse could visit, to discuss with her those side effects, and the repercussions of just not taking them? Im sure her gp can work with her to find a type of pill that suits her better?The dangers of just not taking them without finding a more suitable one is very serious.

It sounds like she may be developing Alzheimer’s .

Bizarre behaviour. She doesn’t sound rational.

I think you need to look at this problem from your angle, rather than hers.

Sorry, that's clumsily put, what I meant is that you are, quite rightly, tired of helping a friend who makes no effort to help herself. So stop helping, as you have decided to, and stick to it.

I had to do this with a neighbour and felt bad about it, but I had noticed too things that really annoyed me-

The first was that like your friend, mine made no effort to deal with things herself, it was obviously easier to get me to deal with them.

Secondly, she never asked me what she could do in return, not even after my husband was diagnosed with an agressive form of cancer - and I honestly could have used help during the last three months of his life. After he died, she told me how sorry she was, but literally has not spoken to me since. Absolutely no offers of help were forthcoming, not so much as an equiry as to how I was getting on.

For your own sake, stick to your decision not to solve this woman's problems for her. If she asks why you have changed, tell her pleasantly but truthfully that you find it too exasperating to try to help someone who makes no effort herself.

At our time of life no-one is likely to change and suddenly become practical and efficient if they have been lacksidasically all their life and things might well get worse as she gets older.

To cossy- maybe your husband should change his phone number? Drastic i know but it might be the only way forward.And you may have to say goodbye to the money unfortunately.And if she is getting angry about these things then she may need more help medically or by social srvices means.(there could be underlying reasons for those like the start of dementia or similar?)

Astitchintime

I agree with previous comments on this.......buy her a calendar for Christmas and a notebook in which you can enter phone numbers for people she can call on ...... eg plumber - tv repairer - electrician etc. As for the medication, explain that not everyone suffers side effects and she would be best to read the enclosed information sheet (it is alarming how many people don't do that)

After doing all that just take a step back, she is a friend not a client in you care.

Excellent advice…except for the medication advice sheet… have you ever read the ‘side effects’ part? On almost every medication I have ever had, they list almost every side effect possible under the sun! I assume this is to cover the manufacturer… if I had taken much notice of that I would never take another med. A good friend has side-effects from taking statins …which he NEEDS, but that is a very rare occurrence,and having discovered his allergy the docs are prescribing alternatives. She needs to try them to see if she has any problems. However perhaps the side effect she has been told about is not one that occurs til later? In which case perhaps you could research the medication and print out any positive and researched articles for her to read?
Just a thought!

It is difficult to know why this lady behaves as she does without really knowing her. Top of my list would be that she is depressed.

I think there are still a lot of women around who can't do anything without a husband or father hovering at their elbow to take away the big nasty chores of life. A lack of computer skills is just one of those things - nobody is born knowing how to operate a PC or mobile phone. But if she wants to learn these (or any other) skills, she will - she'll just have to, or get left behind as technology sweeps away our option to think for ourselves (there are already things out there where you simply must have a textable mobile or you get summarily excluded). I have a friend exactly like this, and she isn't even widowed yet. She simply will not do anything for herself if she can get some other patsy to do it for her. She called me last week, asking me to buy my own Christmas gift and bill her for it, because "I simply can't think what on earth to get anyone this year." I told her to go for a walk, pick up a pretty leaf or pebble and wrap it up in Christmas paper for me. I'd be immeasurably happier with that than knowing she spent zero effort - I'd even prefer no gift at all. But that's her personality and I suppose she's entitled to be the person she wants to be. There it is. Advice: extricate yourself from her network of patsies, if you can. She'll manage - we all have to.

I think there are still a lot of women around who can't do anything without a husband or father hovering at their elbow ........ I think it works the other way around too.....lots of men who lose their wives become pretty helpless and often seek a new partner (servant) pretty quickly!

Caleo

It is laziness. My sons help me with 'masculine' jobs like sorting computer problems and understanding politics. They even praise me for being interested in so many things 'at my age' and I lap it all up. But I know old age is no excuse for opting out of responsibilities.

Seriously 🤦🏼‍♀️ Did the 3 female prime ministers pass you by?
Btw my daughter is testing a new computer system that will save the NHS hundreds of millions of pounds.

My friend isn’t allowed 🤦🏼‍♀️ to use their laptop because her husband says she will mess things up, yeh, right.
A few of us have our own opinions why he won’t let her near it 😉
That means I order all her online stuff.

These are all early signs of dementia. When someone's brain is dying their ability to learn and process new information is gone. Their ability to plan and remember is gone. There is no ability to problem solve. All they can do is rely on someone else - their brain no longer is working correctly. Please don't turn away from this friend right now - she may need you more than ever because you are the only one that perceives the problem. That doesn't mean you must take on responsibility yourself but you may need to contact someone who can do this. Does your friend have family who should be contacted? (Make a list of signs you are seeing that are not quite right so you can explain what seems abnormal.) If there is no family, contact the Alzheimer's Society and ask for advice.

My dad had Alzheimer's. I read your story and tears came to my eyes because almost everything you wrote was true in the early days of his dementia (and of course it got worse.) Do remember that at the beginning an individual with dementia mostly acts and talks normally. but when you know what you are looking for there are obvious signs that something is really really wrong. (Helplessness is a big red flag.) Please don't bring the possibility of this diagnosis up with your friend because if her brain is dying she also has no ability to "fix herself" and no ability to self-evaluate what is changing. (Google anosognosia.) Do give a call to the Alzheimer's Society and explain what you are seeing and ask for their advice.

I think she may be autistic (high functioning autism). She will have confusion and be unwilling to do things out of the ordinary and be wary of strangers, hence why she heavily depends on you.

I totally agree. I also have a friend like that! Her dad did everything for her, then her husband, they divorced now it's her son! Down to no idea how to put air in her tyres or water in windscreen washer etc etc...Anytime Ive said Ill show her...it's fine ...Jamie will.do it! My dad made sure I knew basic car maintenance and had to show him before he let me take family car out on my own..also basic things like changing a light bulb, checking fuses etc. And it has all come in useful...🙏💜

Kind and patient and a good listener. She sounds a gem. Maybe she doesnt want to be fixed really. As you say, intelligent but lazy. Live and let live but don't see her as your problem.

She's lazy and has been taking advantage of your kindness. I was widowed 17 years ago and have learned to do things I never imagined I would need to do or able to come to that. She needs to do things for herself, the medication business is totally stupid, her GP will put
her right.

I have very mixed feelings about all this. In many things I am extremely competent (age 73). I was an Accountant so managing my finances is second nature. I am proficient with computers (enough, anyway) and use Zoom. I use online banking for most things and manage my credit cards well. However, I have also got a list of things I struggle with - and always have. Machines have always foxed me. I even struggle with modern TVs without a shortlist of main instructions and I could easily go 10 days not knowing what to do about it. Probably in tears!!

I do have a husband who is (a) totally ignorant about finances (b) pretty useless with a computer (despite having been a computer programmer for years and later a University lecturer in computing) and (c) would live in total unsanitary conditions and disorganised mess if it were not for me.

Both of us would be in a mess if one of us were not here - but in different ways.

Neither of us has any sign of dementia.

Right now we are both struggling to get our TV to work. It tells us there is no signal (we have a satellite dish and a set-top box). There is no sound either. I have not a clue. He is better at trying things but after an hour still no signal. We do not know what to do.

Giving your neighbour a list of contacts is an excellent idea but where we live there simply are no people to contact for half the problems suggested.

All that said, it is true that some people just will not try, and many of my contacts (I am treasurer of our u3a) just refuse to move with the times. I could name fifty members who have never considered a computer (or even a smartphone) and would die rather than purchase goods online. One member, a highly intelligent retired solicitor still drives 30 miles to "her" bank to draw out cash every week to pay all her expenses. When her local branch closed the manager took her outside and showed her how to use the cash dispenser. It is still there but she can't (won't?) use it.

I am perfectly knowledgeable about politics, having spent a lifetime involved both locally and nationally. So is my DH when I educate him on the subject!