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Gisèlle Pelicot - the case is tearing French society apart.

(132 Posts)
FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:19:25

From an article in the Sunday Times:

“Since there are 50 in total, the alleged rapists have been tried in batches and I’m just here for the final seven: Boris, Philippe, Nicolas, Nizair, Joseph, Christian, Charly. Plus Dominique Pelicot himself, who invited them all into his marital bedroom, where he had his wife waiting, drugged and naked, and who joined in and filmed it all. Pelicot, 71, crumpled and fat now, but with a residual bulky power, sits sullenly alone with his guard in a separate glass box, protected from the other men who blame and detest him.

Ordinary men in many respects, not vagrants, junkies or career criminals. This week’s seven includes a fireman, an electrician and a journalist; several are fathers, two were keen weightlifters, one bred dogs. French trials helpfully begin with a personality profile formed from interviews with the men, their friends and colleagues. Poverty, domestic violence and mental breakdowns feature, but also that a man is “kind” or “gentle”, had a lovely childhood, adored his grandparents or is devoted to his mum.

But one question overshadows all others. How many men would have done the same? If Pelicot could recruit at least 70 willing participants (a number could not be identified) within a 25-mile radius of Mazan, the Provençal town where the couple retired, how many in the whole of France? As I walk through Avignon with Juliette Campion of radio station France Info, who bears the strain of reporting this case since September, she gestures to a bureau de tabac: “You think, ‘Would a guy in there have raped Gisèle? Or men in the boulangerie or those on the street?’ Women are looking at men differently: they’re asking, ‘Could you or you or you?’ ”

In court, I hear another psychiatrist tasked with assessing whether each of the final seven defendants has the profile of a sexual abuser. One by one, he exonerates the men, saying they are not dangerous or likely to reoffend, to the growing exasperation of Gisèle’s team. Then he reaches Charly A. “He doesn’t search [for victims] systematically,” says the psychiatrist. “He’s not a predator.” Finally, Babonneau explodes: “Six times with a sleeping woman and he’s not a sexual abuser?” The men do not identify as rapists because, like this psychiatrist, they define rape as frenzied sexual violence, not an opportunistic act performed to whispers in a private home. As one defendant put it, “It’s her husband, his house, his room, his bed, his wife.”

Maggiemaybe Sat 07-Dec-24 12:31:04

Instead of course of being her home, her room, her bed, her body…

Every one of these men is a disgrace to the human race. One of the most shocking things about the case to me is that not a single one of them thought “this is wrong, I’ll report it”. If just one man approached by Pelicot had done this, the whole horror would have been stopped.

Kate1949 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:35:19

Whether they are likely to do it again is irrelevant. They should be punished for what they did THIS time.

Overthemoongran Sat 07-Dec-24 12:36:16

Every week I watch the latest David Attenborough TV series, and, as with all the previous series, there are always males fighting other males to have sex with the females. It would appear that in spite of our ‘sophistication’ and progression as a species, humans are still basically the same as most other animals, the sex drive is still number one on the list of many males priorities and females are the ones to suffer sad.

HousePlantQueen Sat 07-Dec-24 12:42:15

What a frightening read that is FGT. It is the sheer ordinariness of the rapists, men who can go to their neighbours house, rape his wife, then just go about their business, business which may in likelihood involve meeting their victim as she too goes about her daily life. Too many think of rapists as monsters who jump out of bushes, scary strangers, whereas they are statistically more likely to be known to the victim. My frequent use of the word rapist is deliberate, any man who has sexual relations with a woman without her consent is a rapist, even if as in this case, they do so without violence.

Rosie51 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:42:43

Of course they're sexual abusers. The woman was unconscious, unresponsive. Every one of these men is a disgrace to the human race. I agree 100% Maggiemaybe. If I was married to any of them I'd be filing for divorce, and if I was the child of one I'd be cutting him out of my life absolutely.

CariadAgain Sat 07-Dec-24 12:44:26

They should indeed be punished. Blow their little sexual fantasies about a submissive woman (so darn "submissive" apparently that it doesn't count in their tiny minds she was asleep).

What that awful man did is going to reverberate for some time yet. I must admit that if I were a local woman in that area any man I was involved with (in whatever way - even just as a friend) would be subject to cross-questioning to "prove he wasnt anything like that". I'd be surprised if many women in that area will trust men ever again - even if they've never been attacked personally like that.

That is one brave woman going through a court case like that so publicly - as she walks in each day with her well-cut hair, elegant clothes and her head held high. Fingers crossed she's at least been able to cure the illnesses these brutes passed onto her - so at least she won't be stuck with that legacy of what happened to her.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:48:06

Cont. from the article:

“But as the “Without her knowledge” forum suggests, his was not a unique fantasy. The Pelicot case has illuminated the issue of “chemical submission”, not only drinks being spiked by strangers in bars, but drugs used to control partners within relationships. The French health service is noted for being blasé about prescribing heavy-duty medications, which is how Pelicot stockpiled his vast stash of Temesta.

Documentary-maker Linda Bendali has made a film for French TV about chemical submission, featuring seven cases, including a 13-year-old girl drugged by her father with medicine supposedly for her allergies, put in lingerie and raped over two years, and a 60-year-old woman drugged then raped at home by a man she was mentoring at work. “I’ve looked back at 30 years of press reports of rape,” says Bendali, “which includes dozens of women saying they woke up — mainly with men they know— unable to remember what happened.”

The Sleeping Beauty scenario, she says, is not merely a means for a man to get easy sexual access, but a way to enjoy absolute domination. “You are not even giving her the chance to consent,” says Bendali. “You can do anything you want to a drugged woman, for as long as you want. You can dress her how you want. These men want total power.” Pelicot is typical in filming his crimes: “Pictures are trophies. He was driven by a mix of desires for blackmail and voyeurism.”

Jaxjacky Sat 07-Dec-24 12:48:29

I’ve been following the case FGT it’s raising the question throughout Françe and beyond of attitudes to rape and responses.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:50:56

Indeed Jax. It’s just unbelievably shocking. Sentencing is on 17th December I believe.

MissInterpreted Sat 07-Dec-24 13:15:11

I've been following the case too. It is truly horrific. But I have no words to describe my admiration for Giséle Pelicot. Her courage and bravery have been absolutely astounding. As she so rightly says "I wanted that all victims of rape could say, 'well if Giséle can do it, we can do it. Because when we are raped, we have shame, but it's not for us to be ashamed, but for those men.” Shame must change sides.

sodapop Sat 07-Dec-24 13:15:51

Man is still king in France sadly. We have had examples of this often whilst living in France.
I think the comments from the the Maire said it all really. Of course he is Maire no longer.

Dickens Sat 07-Dec-24 13:17:32

A poignant post FGT, thank you for raising it.

Women are looking at men differently: they’re asking, ‘Could you or you or you?’ ”

It's the ordinariness of these men, these men with wives and children, that makes it all so depressing.

They don't fit the image of the rapist, but they've all had sex with a woman without her consent. So that is what they are.

... if only one of them had looked at her, unconscious and unaware, and said or thought, "no, I can't do this...", it would give a little spark of hope. But these ordinary, often 'family' men, couldn't resist their primitive urge to opportunistically have sex with a woman who at that moment, lost all her dignity and her human-ness because she simply became a sexual object on which they could satisfy their lust. They didn't even need reciprocation - this poor (brave) woman was to them little more than a blow-up-doll, a receptacle.

We're not as far along the evolutionary path as we think we are - or maybe such men always have, and always will, exist?

Galaxy Sat 07-Dec-24 13:47:17

Not all men but lots of men.

Aveline Sat 07-Dec-24 13:54:26

Women must be looking sideways at all the men they meet in that area and wondering about them. Maybe others should too?
What a woman Giselle Pelicot is. The recent top 100 women of the year chart should have just her in it occupying all 100 places. Such bravery in the face of such concerted evil.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 14:09:36

Well said all of you. So many great posts here.

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 14:53:52

She is beyond couragous. They are beyond vile. I hope the sentencing reflects this.

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 14:56:40

There was a film that came out in 2022, called 'Women Talking', with a similar theme.

M0nica Sat 07-Dec-24 14:58:22

I am curious. This reads like a first thread on this subject, but surely we discussed it extensive;ly when the case first started.

It is not this thread which I am surprised by but the number responding as if they never knew about or had discussed this case before - or am I suffering from Deja vu?

Chocolatelovinggran Sat 07-Dec-24 15:00:36

FGT this has been a truly alarming case, hasn't it?
I cannot believe that any woman could stay married to one of these men, however kind each is to his grandmother/ devoted to his mum.
I wonder how their female colleagues feel about them?
I can only hope for each and every one to be shunned by women with whom they are in contact, and that they hear nothing
but expressions of female solidarity and utter contempt for rapists.

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 15:01:07

And?

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 15:01:45

Speaking to MOnica

M0nica Sat 07-Dec-24 15:06:23

and what?

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 15:10:25

And what does it matter if there has been a thread on this already?

Fairislecable Sat 07-Dec-24 15:12:16

I hope the judge gives them the longest sentence possible. I am concerned that because she has spoken out and shown such courage it could be perceived she has recovered from her ordeal.

I am reminded of the Jill Saward case where she was savagely attacked by burglars in her own home but the perpetrators were given a longer sentence for the burglary than the rape!!