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Gisèlle Pelicot - the case is tearing French society apart.

(133 Posts)
FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:19:25

From an article in the Sunday Times:

“Since there are 50 in total, the alleged rapists have been tried in batches and I’m just here for the final seven: Boris, Philippe, Nicolas, Nizair, Joseph, Christian, Charly. Plus Dominique Pelicot himself, who invited them all into his marital bedroom, where he had his wife waiting, drugged and naked, and who joined in and filmed it all. Pelicot, 71, crumpled and fat now, but with a residual bulky power, sits sullenly alone with his guard in a separate glass box, protected from the other men who blame and detest him.

Ordinary men in many respects, not vagrants, junkies or career criminals. This week’s seven includes a fireman, an electrician and a journalist; several are fathers, two were keen weightlifters, one bred dogs. French trials helpfully begin with a personality profile formed from interviews with the men, their friends and colleagues. Poverty, domestic violence and mental breakdowns feature, but also that a man is “kind” or “gentle”, had a lovely childhood, adored his grandparents or is devoted to his mum.

But one question overshadows all others. How many men would have done the same? If Pelicot could recruit at least 70 willing participants (a number could not be identified) within a 25-mile radius of Mazan, the Provençal town where the couple retired, how many in the whole of France? As I walk through Avignon with Juliette Campion of radio station France Info, who bears the strain of reporting this case since September, she gestures to a bureau de tabac: “You think, ‘Would a guy in there have raped Gisèle? Or men in the boulangerie or those on the street?’ Women are looking at men differently: they’re asking, ‘Could you or you or you?’ ”

In court, I hear another psychiatrist tasked with assessing whether each of the final seven defendants has the profile of a sexual abuser. One by one, he exonerates the men, saying they are not dangerous or likely to reoffend, to the growing exasperation of Gisèle’s team. Then he reaches Charly A. “He doesn’t search [for victims] systematically,” says the psychiatrist. “He’s not a predator.” Finally, Babonneau explodes: “Six times with a sleeping woman and he’s not a sexual abuser?” The men do not identify as rapists because, like this psychiatrist, they define rape as frenzied sexual violence, not an opportunistic act performed to whispers in a private home. As one defendant put it, “It’s her husband, his house, his room, his bed, his wife.”

Dickens Sat 07-Dec-24 15:50:29

pascal30

It seems that these men will get away with whatever they can.. they didn't view her as a person, merely as a self gratifying experience.
Goodness knows how their wives and daughters are feeling now.. I imagine there will be many marriage breakups.. How could you ever respect or take a man seriously again after this base behaviour.
I hope they all get prison sentences and that Gisele Pelicot gets the justice she deserves. What an amazingly courageous woman..

Goodness knows how their wives and daughters are feeling now.. I imagine there will be many marriage breakups.. How could you ever respect or take a man seriously again after this base behaviour.

I'm pondering that aspect, too.

We all know that once you lose respect for someone, the relationship will be strained, to say the least.

... but how can any woman, married to such a man, comfortably sleep in the same bed with him again?

And those wives with daughters will feel doubly insulted and betrayed, won't they?

I'm actually finding it hard to imagine what it must be like to be in their position. sad

grandMattie Sat 07-Dec-24 15:42:48

It's truly horrific. Difficult to imagine.

But, what I think is saddest, is that every good man, honest man, is unfairly being tarred by the same brush.

Dickens Sat 07-Dec-24 15:41:12

M0nica

I am curious. This reads like a first thread on this subject, but surely we discussed it extensive;ly when the case first started.

It is not this thread which I am surprised by but the number responding as if they never knew about or had discussed this case before - or am I suffering from Deja vu?

Not sure what you're suffering from.

Maybe some of us didn't comment the first time round?

I'm posting because a sentence in the piece quoted by FGT made me think, and I just wanted to comment on it...

As the trial continues, maybe there'll be more threads on it with similar posts from those who give you the same impression.

If we've already commented previously, should we not comment again? Or do we have to preface the post by making it clear that this isn't the first time we've heard about it?

I'm not really sure what your point is MOnica ???

Mt61 Sat 07-Dec-24 15:21:50

Pity they got rid of the guillotine

Gummie Sat 07-Dec-24 15:17:52

Its all so horrific and heartbreaking. Makes me cry what this woman has suffered and how many of the 'men' will just get away with it.

pascal30 Sat 07-Dec-24 15:15:09

It seems that these men will get away with whatever they can.. they didn't view her as a person, merely as a self gratifying experience.
Goodness knows how their wives and daughters are feeling now.. I imagine there will be many marriage breakups.. How could you ever respect or take a man seriously again after this base behaviour.
I hope they all get prison sentences and that Gisele Pelicot gets the justice she deserves. What an amazingly courageous woman..

Fairislecable Sat 07-Dec-24 15:14:03

The Financial Times have listed Gisele Pelicot on their Women Of 2024 Heroes list.

And rightly so.

Fairislecable Sat 07-Dec-24 15:12:16

I hope the judge gives them the longest sentence possible. I am concerned that because she has spoken out and shown such courage it could be perceived she has recovered from her ordeal.

I am reminded of the Jill Saward case where she was savagely attacked by burglars in her own home but the perpetrators were given a longer sentence for the burglary than the rape!!

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 15:10:25

And what does it matter if there has been a thread on this already?

M0nica Sat 07-Dec-24 15:06:23

and what?

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 15:01:45

Speaking to MOnica

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 15:01:07

And?

Chocolatelovinggran Sat 07-Dec-24 15:00:36

FGT this has been a truly alarming case, hasn't it?
I cannot believe that any woman could stay married to one of these men, however kind each is to his grandmother/ devoted to his mum.
I wonder how their female colleagues feel about them?
I can only hope for each and every one to be shunned by women with whom they are in contact, and that they hear nothing
but expressions of female solidarity and utter contempt for rapists.

M0nica Sat 07-Dec-24 14:58:22

I am curious. This reads like a first thread on this subject, but surely we discussed it extensive;ly when the case first started.

It is not this thread which I am surprised by but the number responding as if they never knew about or had discussed this case before - or am I suffering from Deja vu?

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 14:56:40

There was a film that came out in 2022, called 'Women Talking', with a similar theme.

Maremia Sat 07-Dec-24 14:53:52

She is beyond couragous. They are beyond vile. I hope the sentencing reflects this.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 14:09:36

Well said all of you. So many great posts here.

Aveline Sat 07-Dec-24 13:54:26

Women must be looking sideways at all the men they meet in that area and wondering about them. Maybe others should too?
What a woman Giselle Pelicot is. The recent top 100 women of the year chart should have just her in it occupying all 100 places. Such bravery in the face of such concerted evil.

Galaxy Sat 07-Dec-24 13:47:17

Not all men but lots of men.

Dickens Sat 07-Dec-24 13:17:32

A poignant post FGT, thank you for raising it.

Women are looking at men differently: they’re asking, ‘Could you or you or you?’ ”

It's the ordinariness of these men, these men with wives and children, that makes it all so depressing.

They don't fit the image of the rapist, but they've all had sex with a woman without her consent. So that is what they are.

... if only one of them had looked at her, unconscious and unaware, and said or thought, "no, I can't do this...", it would give a little spark of hope. But these ordinary, often 'family' men, couldn't resist their primitive urge to opportunistically have sex with a woman who at that moment, lost all her dignity and her human-ness because she simply became a sexual object on which they could satisfy their lust. They didn't even need reciprocation - this poor (brave) woman was to them little more than a blow-up-doll, a receptacle.

We're not as far along the evolutionary path as we think we are - or maybe such men always have, and always will, exist?

sodapop Sat 07-Dec-24 13:15:51

Man is still king in France sadly. We have had examples of this often whilst living in France.
I think the comments from the the Maire said it all really. Of course he is Maire no longer.

MissInterpreted Sat 07-Dec-24 13:15:11

I've been following the case too. It is truly horrific. But I have no words to describe my admiration for Giséle Pelicot. Her courage and bravery have been absolutely astounding. As she so rightly says "I wanted that all victims of rape could say, 'well if Giséle can do it, we can do it. Because when we are raped, we have shame, but it's not for us to be ashamed, but for those men.” Shame must change sides.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:50:56

Indeed Jax. It’s just unbelievably shocking. Sentencing is on 17th December I believe.

Jaxjacky Sat 07-Dec-24 12:48:29

I’ve been following the case FGT it’s raising the question throughout Françe and beyond of attitudes to rape and responses.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 07-Dec-24 12:48:06

Cont. from the article:

“But as the “Without her knowledge” forum suggests, his was not a unique fantasy. The Pelicot case has illuminated the issue of “chemical submission”, not only drinks being spiked by strangers in bars, but drugs used to control partners within relationships. The French health service is noted for being blasé about prescribing heavy-duty medications, which is how Pelicot stockpiled his vast stash of Temesta.

Documentary-maker Linda Bendali has made a film for French TV about chemical submission, featuring seven cases, including a 13-year-old girl drugged by her father with medicine supposedly for her allergies, put in lingerie and raped over two years, and a 60-year-old woman drugged then raped at home by a man she was mentoring at work. “I’ve looked back at 30 years of press reports of rape,” says Bendali, “which includes dozens of women saying they woke up — mainly with men they know— unable to remember what happened.”

The Sleeping Beauty scenario, she says, is not merely a means for a man to get easy sexual access, but a way to enjoy absolute domination. “You are not even giving her the chance to consent,” says Bendali. “You can do anything you want to a drugged woman, for as long as you want. You can dress her how you want. These men want total power.” Pelicot is typical in filming his crimes: “Pictures are trophies. He was driven by a mix of desires for blackmail and voyeurism.”