"Read the Room" and stick to the subject

love0c

Clearly many people on here are queuing up to argue and split hairs on the meaning of and remembering 'Holocaust Day'. I find it abhorrent. I will not return.

Errrmm! That's what the OP was about.

Nobody has disputed the centrality of the memory of the murdered Jews by the Nazis. What some have done is point out the actual aims of Holocaust Memorial Day by those who set it up and are published on the official site.

This is the statement of commitment in the UK:

"We recognise that the Holocaust shook the foundations of modern civilisation. Its unprecedented character and horror will always hold universal meaning.

We believe the Holocaust must have a permanent place in our nation's collective memory. We honour the survivors still with us, and reaffirm our shared goals of mutual understanding and justice.

We must make sure that future generations understand the causes of the Holocaust and reflect upon its consequences. We vow to remember the victims of Nazi persecution and of all genocide.

We value the sacrifices of those who have risked their lives to protect or rescue victims, as a touchstone of the human capacity for good in the face of evil.

We recognise that humanity is still scarred by the belief that race, religion, disability or sexuality make some people's lives worth less than others'. Genocide, antisemitism, racism, xenophobia and discrimination still continue. We have a shared responsibility to fight these evils.

We pledge to strengthen our efforts to promote education and research about the Holocaust and other genocide. We will do our utmost to make sure that the lessons of such events are fully learnt.

We will continue to encourage Holocaust remembrance by holding an annual Holocaust Memorial Day. We condemn the evils of prejudice, discrimination and racism. We value a free, tolerant, and democratic society.."

Angela Rayner's tweet acknowledged the commitment, as have the posts about which the OP seems to be complaining.

Who wrote that ‘statement of commitment in the UK’ ?
Cleverly done isn’t it, manages to not mention Jews even once!

Oreo it is the Stockholm declaration see below:

"Holocaust Memorial Day was established on 27 January 2000, when representatives from 46 countries around the world met in Stockholm to discuss Holocaust education, remembrance and research. At the end of this meeting,
all attendees signed a declaration committing to preserving the memory of those who were murdered in the Holocaust."

loveOc I fail to see how giving information from legitimate sources can be described as splitting hairs

Oreo

Who wrote that ‘statement of commitment in the UK’ ?
Cleverly done isn’t it, manages to not mention Jews even once!

What are you implying?

It's mentions "Holocaust" (with a capital H) a number of times.

When I was a teacher, my school twice invited Holocaust survivors to talk to pupils. Both spoke of their own horrifying experiences in death camps and mentioned that they volunteered to speak to others because they hoped to stop further genocides, not just of Jews. Hopefully, their efforts weren't in vain and people will see the universal horror of all genocides.

It is true that all genocide is abhorrent, but I think the reason the Holocaust was, and remains unique is for two reasons. One the sheer numbers involved, and whilst others groups were singled out as well, the vast majority of those murdered were Jewish, with the design of annihilating completely every Jewish person from Europe. And two, the fact that the Nazis developed industrial methods of killing, using gas chambers designed to hold two thousand people at a time, who were then ‘processed’ by being cremated and the ashes disposed of. This had never been done before and we all hope never again.

I think it would be a sad day ferry23 if GNs were to Stick to the subject. all the time.

I think it would be miraculous Indigo .

maddyone

It is true that all genocide is abhorrent, but I think the reason the Holocaust was, and remains unique is for two reasons. One the sheer numbers involved, and whilst others groups were singled out as well, the vast majority of those murdered were Jewish, with the design of annihilating completely every Jewish person from Europe. And two, the fact that the Nazis developed industrial methods of killing, using gas chambers designed to hold two thousand people at a time, who were then ‘processed’ by being cremated and the ashes disposed of. This had never been done before and we all hope never again.

There's no doubt about the scale of the Nazi Holocaust and, of course, it shouldn't be forgotten. However, the complaint was about keeping Holocaust Memorial Day exclusively as a commemoration of Jews in the Holocaust, but (as was pointed out - and it's not splitting hairs) the intention has always been to consider genocide and the hatred of "others", which caused it, more universally.

I always think that in any genocide or mass killing that every person is equal, the tragedy is equal. Everyone will be afraid, be in pain, bleed. Isn't there a saying about you save one person you save the world, I see it being on a par with that you kill one you have killed all.

While I totally applaud the idea that teaching about the Holocaust should encourage reflection about the wider implications for the future, I still think the memorial service was right to focus on the 6 million Jewish victims who were murdered. As maddyone says, the huge numbers show that the intent was to annihilate the entire Jewish race from the surface of Europe. The scale was incommensurable.
(Hitler: "The ultimate goal must definitely be the removal of the Jews altogether.”)

If you walk through Hyde Park, taking the entrance across from Knightsbridge tube station, you come upon the first UK memorial to the victims of the Holocaust, clearly in honour of those 6 million Jews. The prophet's inscription in Hebrew from Lamentations reads:
Streams of tears flow from my eyes because of the destruction of my people.
Thinking about it, it is appropriate, on that particular day, for the entire focus to be on the courage of those Jewish people facing such hatred and wickedness. If it becomes diluted, I think the memory of those events could weaken and eventually disappear.

Yes escaped

escaped I'm not claiming that the Nazi Holocaust wasn't incommensurable. Nevertheless, that wasn't the original intention of the day. If you don't like it, maybe you should write to the UN because I believe it set up the day of commemoration and published its aims. Therefore, people like Angela Rayner wrote a message on X which was absolutely consistent with the aims (but it hasn't stopped people having a go at her).

Interestingly, she wrote an article in the Mirror just four days ago, in which she did mention Jews:

"*'It's ever more important that we learn from their experiences'*
By Angela Rayner

This week, as we approach 80 years since the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau and remember the murder of six million innocent Jews, I have had the privilege of meeting Eve Kugler.

She was just seven when she witnessed the horrors of Kristallnacht – the ‘night of the broken glass’ – and ten when she was torn from her family and sent to America for safety.

Yet Eve is a force to be reckoned with. She built a fulfilling life – marriage, children, a successful career in journalism – and thankfully, her immediate family also survived the Holocaust. Today, aged 94, she continues to share their story and breathe life into Holocaust education.

While we remember the Holocaust for its brutality and as a stark reminder of where hatred can lead when left unchallenged, each survivor’s testimony I’ve heard also reveals a story of resilience and hope.

Sadly, survivors are shrinking in number with each passing year – and as we commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day tomorrow it is ever more important that we learn from their experiences.

In the words of Eli Wiesel, Nobel laureate and Holocaust survivor, “Whoever listens to a witness becomes a witness, so those who hear us, those who read us must continue to bear witness for us.”

When we listen, we keep their stories alive, helping push back against Holocaust distortion and the shameful rise of antisemitism."

I agree Ferry Some posts were disrespectful and should have kept to the subject. 6 million people perished, mainly Jews, we should never forget this.

Yes but not only Jews. The others should be remembered too.

Yes escaped and thank you for saying it.In years gone by, and not that long ago we wouldn’t even be discussing any other groups around the world for this day.Antisemitism is now risen again and it seems we have to fight for recognition, can’t even have a day without somebody saying all killings are equal, well no they bl***y well aren’t.
It would be typical of the antisemitic UN to try and dilute the message.If I had my way the UN would be disbanded.

Oreo

Yes escaped and thank you for saying it.In years gone by, and not that long ago we wouldn’t even be discussing any other groups around the world for this day.Antisemitism is now risen again and it seems we have to fight for recognition, can’t even have a day without somebody saying all killings are equal, well no they bl***y well aren’t.
It would be typical of the antisemitic UN to try and dilute the message.If I had my way the UN would be disbanded.

This is rewriting history. For the last time - Holocaust memorial Day wasn't set up just to commemorate the murder of Jews. It's always had a more universal aim.

The word "holocaust" was used post-WW2 to describe the nuclear bombings of Japan and the bombing of Dresden. It didn't become associated with the Nazi genocide until the 1970s. However much you might want the day to be exclusively for Jews, it isn't and never has been. Take it up with the UN if you don't like that!

The bombing of Dresden? You, or the UN missed out the bombing of London in that case.
I’ve already said I’d disband the useless and antisemitic UN if I could.

You don't seem to much about the history of Holocaust Memorial Day either!

It wasn't the UN which described the bombing of Dresden as a holocaust. It was the word used in the media - fact!

Oh do give it up growstuff
Next you’ll be telling me you know more about being Jewish than me.This constant need you have for the last word is just silly, I can’t be bothered with your posts anymore.

Oreo I'm sorry you're so upset but tbh I think you are misunderstanding some of the views expressed on this thread. I'm posting a link to the UN website area which is specifically about the events organised for this year's HMD. I hope this reassures you that the deaths of 6 million Jews has not been forgotten or disregarded by the UN. You will notice, I hope, the strong focus on the experiences of Jews under the Nazi regime, the part antisemitism played in the Holocaust and the involvement of survivors.
www.un.org/en/page/2025

escaped Wed 29-Jan-25 16:30:31

A good post.

Another point is that the Jewish people have always been enslaved, driven from their ancestral home, persecuted for millennia.

Wars happen, innocent people, children are killed not just the combatants. People killed for land, for their beliefs, it's horrifying.

However, the goal of annihilating a whole race of people from the face of the earth is on another level.
Hitler: "The ultimate goal must definitely be the removal of the Jews altogether.”
Aka The Final Solution to the Jewish Question.

Thank you Allira and Foxie48

As to the UN tho, they have been a useless and toothless organisation for years with so many anti Israel and antisemitic members that I don’t pay attention to anything they say.

I totally agree with the OP but think the subject has now become a merry-go-round on here with nothing more to say.

I agree with you Oreo that the UN are useless. They have been particularly useless during the situation in Israel, as have The Red Cross who it is reported as not having seen any of the hostages during their time in Gaza. The Red Cross even managed to visit a concentration camp during WW2, but not these hostages in Gaza. It is known that some members of the UN are also members of Hamas, so how can anyone have any faith in them?