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Is it a fine line between communism and egalitarianism?

(36 Posts)
Sago Sat 01-Feb-25 13:53:38

Just read an interesting article on Norways current government, they are not popular, growth is being stifled in every area except green energy and oil and gas.

Entrepreneurs are leaving and it’s becoming harder for businesses to grow.
This is due to hefty wealth taxes.

Everyone’s salary in Norway is a matter of public record!

Is it becoming more communist than egalitarian?

Is this the way we are heading under Starmers Britain?

Wyllow3 The article is from todays DT.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Feb-25 13:56:38

Not sure that there is a great understanding of what a communist economy looks like.

Ilovecheese Sat 01-Feb-25 13:57:49

Norway cares about the people who live there and they care about the future of our planet. So of course the DT is going to criticise.

JaneJudge Sat 01-Feb-25 14:04:02

Norway operates under a constitutional monarchy characterized by a parliamentary system. The head of state is King Harald V, whose role is largely ceremonial, while executive authority is exercised by the Prime Minister and the cabinet. The political landscape is predominantly shaped by notable parties including the Labour Party (Arbeiderpartiet), the Conservative Party (Høyre), and the Progress Party (Fremskrittspartiet), among others, reflecting a multi-party system.

The most recent parliamentary elections were held in September 2021, leading to the Labour Party forming a government under Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre. This coalition government is primarily composed of left-leaning factions, indicating a socio-economic focus on welfare, environmental policies, and a nuanced approach to Norway's extensive oil revenues and their implications for sustainable development.

The functional structure of governance includes the Storting, which is Norway's national legislature, comprised of 169 representatives. The legislature is characterized by its dual role in shaping policies and overseeing the government's executive function. Norway’s governance is also marked by a commitment to transparency, human rights, and adherence to international accords, as it navigates its geopolitical context in relation to both the European Union and wider global issues.

Recent developments may also reflect responses to pressing matters such as climate change policies, social equity reforms, and economic challenges posed by global fluctuations, particularly in the energy sector, given Norway's significant hydropower and petroleum resources. This political environment informs both domestic policy orientations and Norway's international stances, including its engagement with the UN and OPEC.

When compared to the Uk system Norway operates under a parliamentary constitutional monarchy, characterized by a strong welfare state and a high degree of political stability. The Storting, Norway's legislative body, is unicameral and exercises significant authority in shaping policy, with a system of proportional representation that fosters multiparty dynamics. The Norwegian Prime Minister acts as the head of government, with a Cabinet drawn from the Storting, and is typically a leader of the majority party or coalition.

In contrast, the UK employs a parliamentary democracy within the framework of a constitutional monarchy as well, yet it has a bicameral system comprising the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The House of Commons holds considerable power, particularly since the principles of first-past-the-post electoral system can lead to majorities that do not necessarily reflect the diverse political sentiments held within the populace.

The UK government is marked by a greater historical emphasis on party discipline and centralized leadership, often leading to a more pronounced adversarial political culture. Recent trends, including Brexit, have also introduced complexities into the UK's legislative processes, impacting its international relations and internal governance structures. Norway's consensus-driven approach, where cooperation among parties is often prioritized, contrasts sharply with this.

In terms of socio-economic policies, Norway’s model exemplifies a blend of capitalism with robust social policies, underscored by extensive wealth redistribution mechanisms funded by its substantial sovereign wealth fund derived from oil revenues. The UK's welfare state, while significant, has seen shifts towards austerity and privatization in recent decades, leading to debates over the adequacy and sustainability of its social safety nets.

Overall, while both nations exhibit parliamentary structures with monarchical elements, the distinct electoral systems, political cultures, and socio-economic paradigms highlight key differences in governance and policy outcomes.

Sago Sat 01-Feb-25 14:14:04

Ilovecheese

Norway cares about the people who live there and they care about the future of our planet. So of course the DT is going to criticise.

But Norway are supplying the rest of is with oil and gas!

GrannyGravy13 Sat 01-Feb-25 14:19:05

Sago

Ilovecheese

Norway cares about the people who live there and they care about the future of our planet. So of course the DT is going to criticise.

But Norway are supplying the rest of is with oil and gas!

Under the Labour government the UK will continue to import gas and oil from Norway whilst the UK’s oil and gas lays undisturbed under the North Sea.

All in the name of net zero, hypocritical?

Wyllow3 Sat 01-Feb-25 14:26:59

Brilliant answer JJ wish I lived there.

The detail of actual facts makes the question the DT poses rather bizarre really, trying to fit complex facts into huge and undefined labels

faced with what is clearly a very strong democracy following a particular strand of social democratic policies.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Feb-25 14:27:38

Yes - so?

Norways population have a real stake in their country and benefit from it enormously.

So, when the oil fields were opened up in the 80s it was noticeable how differently the two interested countries used the income.

Norway built up and continues to build a huge pot of sovereign wealth that helps both to stabilise the country’s economy in benefits for its population day in and day out with various projects., and to generate wealth for future generations. For example a recent one is to make car electric plug in available for every citizen. It i# by far the largest sovereign fund in the world, and we could have followed similar lines

But no

Thatcher completely wasted it on the huge numbers of unemployed, tax cuts for the better off and current government spending - an absolute travesty.

Oreo Sat 01-Feb-25 14:42:05

Tho it’s nice to see Communism get a mention, since I said the other day I hadn’t seen it expressed on this forum in the last two years 😄 Norway is run really as a Socialist country and the people there benefit from it.We are completely different here in the UK for many reasons where a truly Socialist way of running things wouldn’t work so well.

Cossy Sat 01-Feb-25 14:47:15

Oreo

Tho it’s nice to see Communism get a mention, since I said the other day I hadn’t seen it expressed on this forum in the last two years 😄 Norway is run really as a Socialist country and the people there benefit from it.We are completely different here in the UK for many reasons where a truly Socialist way of running things wouldn’t work so well.

Why wouldn’t the Norway system work well here?

We are all people, many of care about others.

Oreo Sat 01-Feb-25 14:53:11

Norway is rich in natural resources with a tiny population, less than 6 million while we are roughly 67 million people here.
Their government is made up of various political parties but mainly left leaning ones.Everyone is paid well there but pays high taxes.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Feb-25 14:58:30

Norway is not a socialist economy

Norway is a mixed economy - so government departments are responsible for various companies that run things like airports, transport, communication etc.

But is also have a thriving private sector. Most people work in the private sector. Most government workers work in the local authorities.

Oreo Sat 01-Feb-25 15:07:55

But it’s run more or less like a Socialist country with people there being so well cared for by a left leaning government which they’re able to do as it’s a well off place with a tiny population.Imagine Scotland being run by a left wing group and with shed loads of money.

Ilovecheese Sat 01-Feb-25 15:14:18

Norway didn't waste its oil money, it invested in the country. We wasted ours.

Oreo Sat 01-Feb-25 15:17:31

Ilovecheese

Norway didn't waste its oil money, it invested in the country. We wasted ours.

True

Eloethan Sat 01-Feb-25 15:21:41

A year or so ago - maybe longer - I watched the Norwegian drama State of Happiness (I think it is being re-shown on on one of the channels). I admit to not knowing a lot about the global oil industry and it was interesting to see that the Norwegians stuck to their guns and ensured that their oil industry was controlled by them and not by the Americans who were making a play for it.

I believe sectors that provide essential services and which require more of a focus on the needs of the country as a whole, rather than the demands of shareholders, should be nationalised. We have seen the disaster made of privatised, and allegedly "competitive" private water and transport provision. That is not to support communism but to provide protection against those who would squeeze every penny out of the public purse without providing even a basic level of service.

NonGrannyMoll Sat 01-Feb-25 15:29:44

Whitewavemark2

Not sure that there is a great understanding of what a communist economy looks like.

I'm not even sure there's a consensus on what communism actually is! My American friends are convinced that British Labour supporters are OF COURSE communists (but then their interpretations of Left & Right don't really mirror ours anyway). As for Norway, they have a different viewpoint altogether, as does every other country in the world. Sorry, I took a long time to say that I can't offer an answer to the OP!

keepingquiet Sat 01-Feb-25 15:36:47

Eloethan

A year or so ago - maybe longer - I watched the Norwegian drama State of Happiness (I think it is being re-shown on on one of the channels). I admit to not knowing a lot about the global oil industry and it was interesting to see that the Norwegians stuck to their guns and ensured that their oil industry was controlled by them and not by the Americans who were making a play for it.

I believe sectors that provide essential services and which require more of a focus on the needs of the country as a whole, rather than the demands of shareholders, should be nationalised. We have seen the disaster made of privatised, and allegedly "competitive" private water and transport provision. That is not to support communism but to provide protection against those who would squeeze every penny out of the public purse without providing even a basic level of service.

State of Happiness is one of my all-time fave dramas and I'm now on watching series 2 again.

It is certainly not a Communist country but has a robust and efficient welfare state.

Unfettered free market Capitalism has taken such a hold in the west that any attempts by the state to intoduce welfare reforms for the good of the people is labelled as communist.

What a sad state of affairs...

M0nica Sat 01-Feb-25 15:47:15

Ilovecheese

Norway cares about the people who live there and they care about the future of our planet. So of course the DT is going to criticise.

That is not a contribution to a serious discussion it is merely a statement of prejudice. Have you read the article?

mum2three Sat 01-Feb-25 15:57:17

I have just read that the retirement age may be raised to 70. Surely it is very unfair to expect people to carry on working to this age? 65 should be the limit.
I think this government want to do away with the benefit system altogether.
Starmer keeps referring to those who disagree with him as 'far-right', but surely this policy is similar to the Nazis, wanting to eradicate all those who were dependent on state help.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Feb-25 16:00:17

mum2three

I have just read that the retirement age may be raised to 70. Surely it is very unfair to expect people to carry on working to this age? 65 should be the limit.
I think this government want to do away with the benefit system altogether.
Starmer keeps referring to those who disagree with him as 'far-right', but surely this policy is similar to the Nazis, wanting to eradicate all those who were dependent on state help.

And this has something to do with Norway - how?

Wyllow3 Sat 01-Feb-25 16:11:10

I think we are just getting wind-ups, WWM2!

PoliticsNerd Sat 01-Feb-25 16:24:41

Sago

Just read an interesting article on Norways current government, they are not popular, growth is being stifled in every area except green energy and oil and gas.

Entrepreneurs are leaving and it’s becoming harder for businesses to grow.
This is due to hefty wealth taxes.

Everyone’s salary in Norway is a matter of public record!

Is it becoming more communist than egalitarian?

Is this the way we are heading under Starmers Britain?

Wyllow3 The article is from todays DT.

Ah, the Daily Telegraph again. As you were, everyone.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Feb-25 16:31:01

PoliticsNerd

Sago

Just read an interesting article on Norways current government, they are not popular, growth is being stifled in every area except green energy and oil and gas.

Entrepreneurs are leaving and it’s becoming harder for businesses to grow.
This is due to hefty wealth taxes.

Everyone’s salary in Norway is a matter of public record!

Is it becoming more communist than egalitarian?

Is this the way we are heading under Starmers Britain?

Wyllow3 The article is from todays DT.

Ah, the Daily Telegraph again. As you were, everyone.

😄😄

Sago Sat 01-Feb-25 16:35:13

PoliticsNerd

Sago

Just read an interesting article on Norways current government, they are not popular, growth is being stifled in every area except green energy and oil and gas.

Entrepreneurs are leaving and it’s becoming harder for businesses to grow.
This is due to hefty wealth taxes.

Everyone’s salary in Norway is a matter of public record!

Is it becoming more communist than egalitarian?

Is this the way we are heading under Starmers Britain?

Wyllow3 The article is from todays DT.

Ah, the Daily Telegraph again. As you were, everyone.

What does that mean?