Three in four pensioners are living in a cold home

Doodledog My irritation is with the willingness to swallow such clearly biased headlines. That does not mean that I think any older people should be cold, just as I don't think young people should struggle, or children go without breakfast. The only way to get around that is to raise taxes though, and that would infuriate many of the people who are indignant now.

Agreed well said as usual Doodledog.

I live in France, in a badly insulated property and although
there are grants available I have left it too late as you have
to not sell the property for 5 years after receiving the money.
I have managed in previous winters but now the heating costs
have soared so I have become 'a scrooge' as I want to sell.
Many comments on here have appalled me. Thank goodness
for the posts by Allira, Piskey and Wendy who have a better
understanding of those who are on their own and not enjoying a retirement with holidays and heating

Doodledog

pomegranatejuice

The right wing Daily Express has never cared about welfare when the Tories were in office. I wonder why the sudden Volte -Face? The sheer disingenuity displayed by not making the sampling clear..and making it clear that it only refers to those with incomes under £20,000. I note too they make no suggestion of renationalising our energy, o r offering to cut their own dividends, or cutting salaries of CEOs. Suddenly it is the fault of the incoming government. I have been impressed with the drive to get pensioners to claim pension credit, and there has been massive uptake. Put the Express back in the toilet where it belongs.

This is exactly my perspective - nothing to do with whether or not I am 'well-heeled' or know 'poor people' 🙄.

The headline doesn't bear scrutiny, and it definitely seems to me that the outrage at it is exactly the opposite of the views often expressed on here about benefits when it is younger people who need them, or when benefits were being cut by the previous government. It comes across as another stick with which to beat the Labour government, and possibly anger at losing £200, whether or not it was being spent on heating.

My irritation is with the willingness to swallow such clearly biased headlines. That does not mean that I think any older people should be cold, just as I don't think young people should struggle, or children go without breakfast. The only way to get around that is to raise taxes though, and that would infuriate many of the people who are indignant now.

I agree with you Doodledog and have written as much in the past, but I'm tired of bashing my head against a brick wall (I'm not very keen on headaches ).

All my friends are pensioners and although have felt cold this winter due to the low temperatures, especially here in West Yorkshire, nobody is without heat. All surveys can be fixed to suit the headlines plus it really depends on who is replying to the questions.

I too agree with Doodledog & Growstuff.
My home is cold though, it's old & draughty & only me here during the day so I only put the CH on when DH comes home from work.
That said, I'm warmer this winter having taking early retirement at 64, than I was in the last 3 winters WFH full-time & not moving around as stuck at a PC.I can always go down & do some admin at DH's business (which is much warmer) if I get too cold during the day now!

Nanna8 I have just spent 5 weeks in Perth WA with my brother who is 72. He tells me of people living in
their cars because they cannot get a place to live. A lot of them are single women. His state pension is means tested every fortnight so he does not know how much he is going to receive on a regular basis. He dies get some state help with fuel and costs for his solar heating.
I got friendly with some ladies my age, 74, and their means, concerns, worries were the same as mine so please don’t be negative about the UK where you haven’t lived for a long time . Life down under is not hunky dory anymore .

My state pension combined with my tiny pension from M&S ans a share of my late husband's pension take me over the limit for Pension Credit. Having the heating allowance was a nice extra, but I've got by without it. My son lives with me but, at the moment, is on a very low wage and doesn't contribute to any of the running costs except food. Having him here means I don't get a rebate on the Council Tax, but the mortgage is paid off so that's a big saving. I am a member of U3A and I've noticed that most of the members have no problem paying for expensive outings, theatre tickets,meals out, and holidays abroad. I'm sure there are also plenty of pensioners who are nothing like as well off. The whole system needs a rethink.

Allira

Many old people are frightened of spending their savings because they are keeping them aside in case they need care, in case they have large bills for maintenance on their home, white goods replacement, boiler replacement, and often for funeral costs.

Some of the posts on here are surprisingly ignorant of how many people, often widowed, do have to live.
I'm astonished. Just because obviously well-heeled people who were in well-paid professions with excellent pensions and know no-one in their peer group who might be struggling does not mean there are not millions of people who are having to watch their pennies and eke out their pensions.

Actually, on reflection, no, I'm not astonished because it's obvious they would never mix with those types of people.

Allira That is a very offensive thing to say. My friends include people on benefits and those managing on very small incomes. I do not subject new friends to a means test. What applies to me will apply to most older people.

I am also not a Virtue Signaller and would consider it demeaning to parade my less well off friends up and down as an example of my virtue in befriending them

I also have over 10 years experience working for a charity for the aged as a home visitor, mostly obtaining benefits for less well off and disabled older people.

My experience is such that my own income is irrelevant.

Older poorer people are not saints, they too are often their own worst enemies and some of them will make decisions that make a bad situation worse.

There is a big difference between having a carefully calculated sum saved somewhere accessible to deal with the replacing white goods, boilers, paying for funeral etc. that you access as necessary, and a sum of money, possible £20k-£40K that will make little or no contribution to paying for any care, that if reduced to £20K, can make your home more comfortable and energy efficient and mean that you will be entitled to means tested benefits, worth as much as £100 a week, and sometimes more, plus qualifying for WFA and other associated benefits.

I have seen the difference making this strategic decision to reduce savings just sufficiently to qualify for means tested benefits can make to someones comfort and security.

Jaxjacky

The DE are headlining from a survey carried out by Age UK, I’ve read the key points of said survey being used as back up support for their petition no No 10 Downing St, the petition calls for the reinstatement of the winter fuel allowance.
Whilst that survey supplies some figures from the over 60’s I know of plenty of people in their 30’s, 40’s and 50’s who are also struggling with fuel bills, some in ill health and with young children.
Energy costs will probably increase around April when the price cap is reviewed, an issue across all age groups.

Younger people have a choice to go out and earn. They can also claim working benefits to help. If you are a pensioner just below the cut off line, you are stuffed.

I have never said Australia is ‘better’ than the UK. In many instances it is worse. Floods, fires and cyclones on a regular basis for one. We just accept that and continue. Financially it is not easy, especially for the young ones. The average price of a house round here is now around a million dollars and that is just average. As regards the heat and cold, many people spend a lot of time in the big shopping centres because they are cool and/or warm in our Winter. But I thought this thread was about the UK. Our leaders aren’t much chop but I have to say I do not like what Starmer and his henchman do, I think they are worse than ours. If the newspapers and social media don’t call them out, who would ?

I'm not shivering,! I am an Oap. But with sensible management I can still afford to eat and heat my home. I wonder how many old people especially those, like me, who live alone, are scrimping on their own comforts to leave a legacy for their families. My 'children' have told me to spend my money now while I'm able. Their inheritance will be my house when I've gone. So I am keeping warm, buying enough food and whatever else i need. I am getting on a but so am determined to make the best of my life however much of it I have left. No use saving now, we cant take it with us.

Well we haven’t found the 3 out of 4 on here have we ???

I seem to remember when Reeves made her wfp announcement, that several posters said that they agreed with her, they gave theirs to charity, used it towards Christmas prezzies, gave it to DGC etc each year. Lucky them! For some of us it was a real help. It gave me £50 extra for the 4 coldest months of the year to bolster my energy allowance. I am single with a small workplace pension taking me above any extra help, but nowhere near £20,000. Single people need all the things that couples need, but on a single income. I know to the penny what my income and outgoings are each month. My food now costs more, so live off "yellow label" food. My energy allowance is the balance left after all the other costs are covered. This gave me a very small credit in November, which is now nearly gone. I live watching my smart meter every day, and when 1/30th of the monthly balance is used I know that I have to switch everything off and go to bed. I save my balance for the evening, I have no heating on during the day. I am frozen most of the time, in spite of thermals and layering. It is an existance, not a life. I struggle to see the point of carrying on at times, but focus on spring arriving. I know many of my friends are in similar circumstances. So from my experience many pensioners live in cold homes in spite of trying to be sensible about budgets. We don't all have comfortable retirements, even after working all out adult lives.

Low income hereand absobloodylutrly freezing.. gonna get worse as landlord putting rent up next month. and water going up and food soaring again

Freya5

Jaxjacky

The DE are headlining from a survey carried out by Age UK, I’ve read the key points of said survey being used as back up support for their petition no No 10 Downing St, the petition calls for the reinstatement of the winter fuel allowance.
Whilst that survey supplies some figures from the over 60’s I know of plenty of people in their 30’s, 40’s and 50’s who are also struggling with fuel bills, some in ill health and with young children.
Energy costs will probably increase around April when the price cap is reviewed, an issue across all age groups.

Younger people have a choice to go out and earn. They can also claim working benefits to help. If you are a pensioner just below the cut off line, you are stuffed.

IF they can find extra jobs.. there really aren't that many about especially for anyone over 50

Mibsy

Low income hereand absobloodylutrly freezing.. gonna get worse as landlord putting rent up next month. and water going up and food soaring again

So your problem is the rent. If you haven't already done so, talk to your council about getting help with this and also that your home is cold. Some benefits go under the radar and many don't know what is possible.

However, giving everyone a heating allowence does not solve one person's problems in another area.

It is very concerning to read about all those people struggling in the cold. Have they spoken to dedicated charities for the elderly like Age UK about the various schemes outside govrnment benefits run by the energy companies and otherd to either subsidise fuel bills or pay for enhanced insulation.

A trickle of people on a digital platform saying they are cold doesn’t negate the fact that the headline Age UK used to promote the petition they were delivering to Downing Street is misleading.

The petition gathered 650,056 signatures. Sounds a decent number but if 9.1 miilion pensioners are alleged to be suffering why didn’t more sign it?

Age UK itself say in the report that 2.5 million older people would struggle without the WFP and wouldn’t be able to afford to stay adequately warm in their homes. That’s credible but it still isn’t 9.1 million.

I agree absolutely that it’s single pensioners who are more likely to be in fuel poverty because the average income of a single pensioner after housing costs (AHC) is far lower than that of a couple but we still need to fuel our homes.

In 2023, the average income of a pensioner couple was £561pw AHC and for a single pensioner £267. Almost £300 per week difference.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/pensioners-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2023/pensioners-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2023

Note the examples given in the Age UK report. I am constantly cold … I cannot afford … I sit indoors wearing two coats … I sit wrapped in a rug … I’ve had to cut down on food … Not a “we” in there.

It would have been helpful if Age UK had included some data in their report which highlighted which demographic has been most disadvantaged by the withdrawal of universal WFP and how this might be addressed.

M0nica

Allira

Many old people are frightened of spending their savings because they are keeping them aside in case they need care, in case they have large bills for maintenance on their home, white goods replacement, boiler replacement, and often for funeral costs.

Some of the posts on here are surprisingly ignorant of how many people, often widowed, do have to live.
I'm astonished. Just because obviously well-heeled people who were in well-paid professions with excellent pensions and know no-one in their peer group who might be struggling does not mean there are not millions of people who are having to watch their pennies and eke out their pensions.

Actually, on reflection, no, I'm not astonished because it's obvious they would never mix with those types of people.

Allira That is a very offensive thing to say. My friends include people on benefits and those managing on very small incomes. I do not subject new friends to a means test. What applies to me will apply to most older people.

I am also not a Virtue Signaller and would consider it demeaning to parade my less well off friends up and down as an example of my virtue in befriending them

I also have over 10 years experience working for a charity for the aged as a home visitor, mostly obtaining benefits for less well off and disabled older people.

My experience is such that my own income is irrelevant.

Older poorer people are not saints, they too are often their own worst enemies and some of them will make decisions that make a bad situation worse.

There is a big difference between having a carefully calculated sum saved somewhere accessible to deal with the replacing white goods, boilers, paying for funeral etc. that you access as necessary, and a sum of money, possible £20k-£40K that will make little or no contribution to paying for any care, that if reduced to £20K, can make your home more comfortable and energy efficient and mean that you will be entitled to means tested benefits, worth as much as £100 a week, and sometimes more, plus qualifying for WFA and other associated benefits.

I have seen the difference making this strategic decision to reduce savings just sufficiently to qualify for means tested benefits can make to someones comfort and security.

No, it is not offensive at all M0nica.

What is offensive are some of the posts on here which seem to be astonishingly smug, assuming that because the posters know no-one amongst their comfortably off friends who is struggling to pay a heating bill therefore feeling the cold that it isn't happening. They forgive the impression of not knowing just what a struggle many older people, often on their own, are finding now to pay the bills.
It was like suddenly pulling the carpet from under their feet.

Your posts were not amongst those.

Some of the posts on here are surprisingly ignorant of how many people, often widowed, do have to live.

Why on earth would you think I meant you, M0nica?
Your posts show empathy and I understanding.

I also said that suddenly removing the WFA without a low cut-off point may have had a psychological effect on some elderly people and worried them so much they have in fact turned their heating right down and may be suffering. Adding in other factors such as perhaps not being able to move around as much or as quickly, other bills increasing, all contributes to their anxiety.

What is the Daily Express suggesting should be done? Give benefits to those who haven't provided for old age (and that is not a value judgement - I know that a lot of people have not earned enough to do so) and thus negate the point of saving, or give all pensioners money towards heating, and reduce the budget for children and others in need? Neither is a sensible strategy, so what do they suggest?

No government wants to encourage people to make themselves dependent on the state, but that is what happens when they means-test. In many ways it doesn't matter where the level is set, there will always be people on the 'cliff edge'. Why would people save (whether in the bank or into pensions) if they are going to be worse off at both 'ends' - when they do without to save, and when their savings then disqualify them from benefits? We have a current thread on here where a poster asks about spending her own money so that she won't be worse off than if she keeps it. It's understandable that people will think like this - people work hard for their money, and want to be better off than if they hadn't done so.

Equally, I linked recently to a thread on here from before the election, and people were saying that they didn't need the WFP and that it should be 'targeted' (AKA means-tested). Politicians scan all media sources for opinions, and threads like that may well have fed into the decision to do so. Whether or not, it is interesting how much opinions have changed now that we have a Labour government in power.

My guess is that when the Tories were in power there will not been an Express headline complaining about young people struggling with high rents and being unable to save, or about how many working people were forced to use foodbanks.

I was going to say something similar to MOnica .
So sorry to hear all the stories on here of some posters’ living conditions.

I hope all those struggling have contacted their energy providers to discuss a possible repayment plan if they get into financial difficulties.

I believe they have a duty to help customers work out an affordable plan.

I don't know, I never read it.
However, there was plenty of news about this and discussions online.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Silverdale I would imagine that the majority of pensioners didn't sign the petition because they did not know about it.

As well as that we know that about one third of the electorate do not bother to vote at elections, so, on something like this probably 40% of the relevant age group, wouldn't go to the effort of finding out about it and voting because they cannot see the point, it won't change things etc etc.

All told 650,000 is a significant number of signatures on a petition.

Allira

I don't know, I never read it.
However, there was plenty of news about this and discussions online.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

One wrong is that people are unable to pay their bills.

What is the other?