Sir Keir Starmer has vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts, describing the current system as “unsustainable, indefensible and unfair”.

If these family farms have to be sold off to pay IHT, there will be less food produced in this country.

Cabbie21

If these family farms have to be sold off to pay IHT, there will be less food produced in this country.

And they'll be bought by wealthy landowners or private equity firms.

Food production is the most important industry.
This is such an ill-thought out move by R Reeves.

Just heard on the news that Sir KS says the government will protect the vulnerable, and help those who can work to get back to work. Lots to be tweaked.

You don’t appear to know much about the family farms which will have to be sold to pay IHT SoD

I do know that many of the arguments against this tax are similar to those put forward by those owning stately homes after WW1 when death duties had to be paid ie asset rich, cash poor.
Frankly, farmers who no longer want to farm often sell their land to developers at great profit or put it across to solar farming. Fine - no problem with that, it's been happening for years, long before inheritance tax was proposed for them.

However, -reading signs saying 'no farmers, no food' really does suggest they are full of benevolence rather than profit motivated! It sticks in the throat.
Even the odious Jeremy Clarkson admitted he invested in land to avoid inheritance tax, yet has the audacity to join the farmers protests!

Really - the poorer farmers won't be affected. The richer ones will, rightly so. Seriously - if your business is not successful it probably is the wrong business.

Food production is the most important industry

When was the last time the average shopping basket was filled with UK produced food?
If we went back to only eating 'seasonal' produce it might be different - but we don't. Also if we only bought UK produced food instead of the cheapest, it might be different - but we don't.
If we only ate fresh, and not frozen, maybe it would be different, but we don't.
If we stopped growing 'our own' in our garden, allotments etc it might be different, but we don't.

Perhaps before panicking we wait and see what is intended. There are many other benefits other than PIP that certainly are abused. Universal Credit, Carers Allowance etc.

My work involved working to get 16-25 year olds into work via into-work Government schemes. There still are several for young people, not as generous as they used to be but available such as apprenticeships, work placement plus college ( like the old YTS) and T training. Most FE colleges run these schemes. We also used to do very effective retraining schemes for adults where, whilst on them, they kept their benefits plus a training allowance. It would be good to bring such schemes back. We also had job clubs which were very effective in getting people (who wanted to work) back into employment.

I remember talking to a middle-aged Chinese man who told the rest of a group of long term unemployed that in China, if you did not work you died! A lot of those who had not worked for six months or more had lost their confidence, were uninformed on how recruitment currently worked, how to get through an interview and in is amazing that with help, encouragement and some training, many succeeded. If you are living or just about managing on benefits, it is a big step to take to make changes that will rock th boat. Once off benefit it is very long-winded to get back in them if things do not work out. We found that few were work dodgers, just unfirtunates,

I'd like to see some jobs that were dispensed with brought back. Two I can immediately think of are 'parkies' as we called them ie people who patrolled parks to keep an eye on things. Also bus conductors - things are less safe since they went to 'driver only' services.

Cabbie21

Just heard on the news that Sir KS says the government will protect the vulnerable, and help those who can work to get back to work. Lots to be tweaked.

How it was always intended, but glad it's been spelt out. Very uphill work. Yes to those sort of schemes, gin

Gin

Perhaps before panicking we wait and see what is intended. There are many other benefits other than PIP that certainly are abused. Universal Credit, Carers Allowance etc.

My work involved working to get 16-25 year olds into work via into-work Government schemes. There still are several for young people, not as generous as they used to be but available such as apprenticeships, work placement plus college ( like the old YTS) and T training. Most FE colleges run these schemes. We also used to do very effective retraining schemes for adults where, whilst on them, they kept their benefits plus a training allowance. It would be good to bring such schemes back. We also had job clubs which were very effective in getting people (who wanted to work) back into employment.

I remember talking to a middle-aged Chinese man who told the rest of a group of long term unemployed that in China, if you did not work you died! A lot of those who had not worked for six months or more had lost their confidence, were uninformed on how recruitment currently worked, how to get through an interview and in is amazing that with help, encouragement and some training, many succeeded. If you are living or just about managing on benefits, it is a big step to take to make changes that will rock th boat. Once off benefit it is very long-winded to get back in them if things do not work out. We found that few were work dodgers, just unfirtunates,

I completely agree with you.

StoneofDestiny

Those who can work, should work. It's not about targeting those with significant disabilities, it's about targeting those who make excuses not to do any work or who find it more beneficial to live on benefits rather than work for their money. The increasing numbers of people claiming stress or depression as a reason to stay at home is insupportable. Yes, these are real ailments, but those at work with stress and depression cannot be expected to effectively pay for the upkeep of those who remain at home with 'stress and depression'. It's too easy to do that.

Yes!

Already been a post on this!

Steelygran

There appears to be little or no reassurance to those who are severely disabled and can't work, who are worrying themselves sick. The whole message seems to reinforce the strivers vs scroungers mentality and I really thought we'd got beyond that. I agree with those who say the message promotes the idea that someone is only of value if they can work and I predict more disability hate crime because of this. I find it rather sinister that this is happening at the same time as the assisted dying bill is being rushed through.

He hasn't exactly "vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts"

Note these emphasised phrases (my emphasis in black) in what he has said "“A wasted generation. One in eight young people not in education, employment or training and the people who really need that safety net still not always getting the dignity they deserve.
“That’s unsustainable, it’s indefensible and it is unfair – people feel that in their bones.
“It runs contrary to those deep British values that if you can work, you should. And if you want to work, the government should support you, not stop you.”

"those at work with stress and depression cannot be expected to effectively pay for the upkeep of those who remain at home with 'stress and depression"

This comment allows for no variation in the severity and impact of mental health conditions.

I have suffered from clinical depression for many years. I have been suicidal. Nevertheless I have always worked. I have dragged myself out of bed each morning when I would rather never have woken up. I have no time for those who say they are too depressed to work and expect to live on benefits.

You have done very, very well Barleyfields.

But people experience the most severe forms of clinical depression/MDD as individuals differently: it can include psychotic features, and/or it can be combined with other serious MH conditions.

We can't make one rule for all the serious mental health conditions that are at issue, and there are some who most definitely cannot work or only work in certain periods of their life.

This is why we have the support for the most vulnerable in our society and need to keep it just as we do for some physical health conditions.

There are also a whole band of people who with support and proper intervention can work, and one of the current problems here is the lack of that support.

Local Mental Health used to be able to provide support in the form of psychological services which weren't full on admission into the Mental Health system but provided counselling and drug intervention in combination with GP's. usually called something like Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) services. These were very much aimed at the group who with early support and intervention could lead a work and home life.

Guess what - yes, they have mostly been cut over the last few years and no longer exist.

There are also a whole band of people who with support and proper intervention can work, and one of the current problems here is the lack of that support

This is also true. Mental health problems can be very incapacitating and real support is essential. However it is essential that the genuine are separated from the malingerers. That takes skill and a professional assessment. The current ‘system’ isn’t working for a number of reasons. A review is essential.

As a person on PIP I am hoping I don't get penalties. I have a degenerative disease. Gradually getting worse over time. My pip helps me pay a dog walker, a cleaner, extra heating and water as i am unable to get to the toilet in time and i cant then get off the toilet without something to hold on to, keeps my car on the road and pays insurance for my mobility scooter. I work part time as my health and exhaustion will not allow me to work full time. I cannot stand, I fall over all the time. This money is a life line to me and I just wanted to show that there are genuine people who need this out there.

StoneofDestiny

*There are also a whole band of people who with support and proper intervention can work, and one of the current problems here is the lack of that support*

This is also true. Mental health problems can be very incapacitating and real support is essential. However it is essential that the genuine are separated from the malingerers. That takes skill and a professional assessment. The current ‘system’ isn’t working for a number of reasons. A review is essential.

As you say, it takes skill and professional assessment.

This means providing it

The IAPT services I alluded to could do that. some very very experienced GP's can, but few have the time or knowledge.

I must also say I have known people who fake depression to get pip and there is no need for them to work. This is what needs to stop.

My adult DS has Down’s Syndrome. If there were benefits for children with disabilities when he was at school, I never heard about them. I wouldn’t have thought, at that stage, that children would be eligible, unless their needs cost the family more money than it cost to bring up a child without a disability. My son was at a special needs school until he was eighteen, then the local college for a year, which didn’t really cater for his level of need. He then attended a day centre twice a week, and it was then that social services ‘ discovered ‘ him. They found a therapeutic placement for him for two days a week, and he was awarded DLA, when he was twenty, plus support allowance, as he wasn’t fit for paid employment. He is now fifty, and still at home. There is a shortage of places in supported living, and no chance of respite whatsoever, as there is a waiting list a few years long apparently. Maybe not in my lifetime then!

It’s good to see so many interesting posts and a largely constructive discussion here.
Gin 👍🏻

Barleyfields - your experience is shared by many, for whom work contributed to getting through some challenging times.

Thank you Iam. Working saved me. If I had given in and stayed at home I wouldn’t be here to write this today - and nor would my son as my intention was to take him with me. I am no harder on others than I am on myself.

nanny2507

I must also say I have known people who fake depression to get pip and there is no need for them to work. This is what needs to stop.

One could not live solely on PIP!

Our mental health services, generally, across the country are appalling.

Not due to those who work in the services, but due to lack of resource and manpower.

Even Charities like MIND now charge for most services.

We need much much better resourced services from child mental health services, right up the scale to pensioners.

When I first started work in the DWP there were many services for those with mental health issues and indeed people with disabilities (under the previous Labour govt)

Within a year the Tories took power and very quickly all the resources were eroded.

We very urgently need the return of support workers, community mental health services, job clubs aimed specially at those with mental health conditions and disability.

People need help and support and money to manage their conditions, some may need counselling and therapy, some need more tailored support.

If things don’t change in this area we will have an ever growing list of people unable to cope.