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So now UK scientists are to dim the sun!

(49 Posts)
Sago Thu 24-Apr-25 08:52:50

There are a number of articles, the UK is expected to be allowed to start experimenting with “sun dimming”.
50m has been granted, this is apparently all for the long term greater good of our planet.
So they use cloud seeding to deliver rain and now wish to control the sun.
When will they learn, you cannot mess with Mother Nature.

Wonder how the solar farmers feel about this!

Wyllow3 Thu 24-Apr-25 16:02:10

NotSpaghetti

Thank you for being one of the ^almost nobody gang , growstuff
I admit I found them interesting.

I'm not a scientist but do like to know something about what's going on.

^“We don’t currently know enough to consider deployment,” said Dr Fitzgerald, “but we need to build up our understanding before countries potentially start using these methods out of desperation.”^

We need to know, it's clearly not about to be imposed on us, if it may be used by others, it's worth the research. Yes, and as ever, the shock horror brigade are on to it without serving up the whole picture.
Pure science research underpins what later may come to be used - or not be used - but its clearly not about to be "imposed" on us.

Sago Thu 24-Apr-25 16:06:21

www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/apr/22/uk-scientists-outdoor-geoengineering-experiments

Here’s a link to one of the many articles.

JacquiOh Thu 24-Apr-25 16:26:36

This is wicked. There is huge division among climate scientists about whether co2 is causing climate change or not. More co2 will be good for the planet, it helps things grow. Ask yourself why fruit and veg growers pump co2 into their greenhouse?

Is the sun getting hotter? Our solar panels have increased collection of power over the last few years. Why do we see the aurora now? Is it because the sun is more active? It should be as it is approaching the peak of the solar cycle. This abomination must be stopped and we must adapt.

NotSpaghetti Thu 24-Apr-25 16:34:48

Of course Raymond T. Pierrehumbert is a strong advocate for prioritizing the reduction of carbon dioxide emissions as the primary solution to climate change... but so many people aren't listening Sago

Nicolenet Thu 24-Apr-25 16:43:41

It will cost millions and is a waste of time, ink and resources.

Furret Thu 24-Apr-25 17:21:29

Don’t believe everything you read in the press/on Facebook/ etc. and I’ve just checked you didn’t post on April Fools Day,

Snowbelle Thu 24-Apr-25 18:08:41

I am a UK scientist - this is NOTHING to do with me, I do something else entirely. I respect nature and God or an amalgam of both. I agree the human race needs to stop meddling. I do not think meddling with nature will end well for us.

agingrapidly Thu 24-Apr-25 18:56:43

I think it's vital we are informed and educated, from Scientists rather than journalists, about these matters - so I will be trying hard to read through the links. Thanks for sharing them!smile

Elegran Thu 24-Apr-25 19:33:27

Yes, agingrapidly Every person who is horrified at this needs to follow those links and read what the actual scientists are actually saying. They would then discover whether this is something planned to happen (no it isn't) or is it something to be researched so that more is known about it before just jumping in and doing it without testing the idea for flaws (sounds to me as if this is what is happening)

It is always best to hear or read this kind of announcement straight from the horse's mouth, not from a reporter who knows F. all about the subject but wants lots of people to read their piece on it, so they make it sound as way-out as possible.

Elegran Thu 24-Apr-25 19:51:41

Here is a quote from one of those links -

". Computer modelling possible outcomes. .
There is currently insufficient knowledge of the impact these interventions might have on the Earth’s system if they are ever deployed at scale, and how this would affect regional climate, humans and ecosystem.

There are also uncertainties around the effectiveness of some proposed SRM approaches .

. Improving our knowledge. .
The Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) will invest £10 million in four research projects, launching in April, that aim to address these gaps in our understanding.

. These projects will not deploy SRM in the real world. .
. Using only computer modelling research and historical data-drive research, the five-year studies will investigate the impact of the following." (Details follow of several approaches which may be considered and researched.)

. Public dialogue. .
The programme aligns with the UK government’s position on SRM, in that the UK is not deploying SRM and has no plans to do so. The UK continues to invest in modelling studies to better understand the impacts of SRM deployment.
The research aims to deliver independent risk-risk analyses to inform policymakers on the potential environmental impacts of SRM.
NERC, with support from Sciencewise, is also commissioning a public dialogue to engage a diverse group and understand what public views and considerations are on SRM.

Churchview Thu 24-Apr-25 21:48:26

More co2 will be good for the planet, it helps things grow. Ask yourself why fruit and veg growers pump co2 into their greenhouse?

CO2 is used in food production in carefully regulated amounts. Too much and the plants suffer.....as do humans and animals.

growstuff Thu 24-Apr-25 22:03:21

Churchview

*More co2 will be good for the planet, it helps things grow. Ask yourself why fruit and veg growers pump co2 into their greenhouse?*

CO2 is used in food production in carefully regulated amounts. Too much and the plants suffer.....as do humans and animals.

CO2 is needed for photosynthesis as well as other nutrients such as water. Crops in greenhouses can benefit from extra CO2 because they're grown intensively. I'm sure we all remember from our school biology lessons that photosynthesis produces glucose and oxygen. It's not the same as CO2 in the atmosphere, especially when vast tracts of forest are being felled.

Factcheck by Reuters: Use of CO2 generators in greenhouses does not disprove impact of CO2 on global warming

www.reuters.com/article/fact-check/use-of-co2-generators-in-greenhouses-does-not-disprove-impact-of-co2-on-global-w-idUSL1N2Z01O0/

Churchview Thu 24-Apr-25 22:11:08

growstuff I was quoting JacquiOh in my post.

Just to confirm, I'm agreeing with you, not her.

MaizieD Thu 24-Apr-25 22:11:49

Snowbelle

I am a UK scientist - this is NOTHING to do with me, I do something else entirely. I respect nature and God or an amalgam of both. I agree the human race needs to stop meddling. I do not think meddling with nature will end well for us.

The human race has meddled with nature. It has pumped more CO2 into the atmosphere, and destroyed more forest, in the past 200 years than at any time previously.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

Allira Thu 24-Apr-25 23:06:31

Snowbelle

I am a UK scientist - this is NOTHING to do with me, I do something else entirely. I respect nature and God or an amalgam of both. I agree the human race needs to stop meddling. I do not think meddling with nature will end well for us.

Scientists come in many varieties 🙂

growstuff Thu 24-Apr-25 23:16:29

Churchview

growstuff I was quoting JacquiOh in my post.

Just to confirm, I'm agreeing with you, not her.

And I'm agreeing with you. Sorry, shouldn't have quoted you.

DD49 Fri 25-Apr-25 12:50:47

If this has anything whatsoever to do with Bill Gates….as has been suggested/rumoured??… it is bad news🤬….Will it be debated in Parliament?.. or another rubber stamp by our current ‘mal-administration’??

growstuff Fri 25-Apr-25 12:54:26

DD49

If this has anything whatsoever to do with Bill Gates….as has been suggested/rumoured??… it is bad news🤬….Will it be debated in Parliament?.. or another rubber stamp by our current ‘mal-administration’??

Why is anything to do with Bill Gates bad news?

Norah Fri 25-Apr-25 14:05:52

Commentary - climate change - from Fortune:

Bill Gates made waves with his statements on climate change. Here’s why he’s right–and what most people missed

Gabriel Labbate
November 16, 2023 at 7:01 AM EST

In September, Bill Gates said it was “complete nonsense” that planting enough trees would take care of the climate problem.

When Bill Gates speaks, people listen. His contributions to tackling global problems have been nothing short of extraordinary, from funding cutting-edge vaccine development to supporting an array of groundbreaking initiatives on climate change. At New York Climate Week in September, his perspectives on climate change did not go unnoticed–and even made waves.

Essentially, his argument is that emissions will peak and then start to go down. They won’t go down as fast as we want them to, so temperatures will continue to rise. Reversing this trend will require massive carbon removal. The goal of staying below 2 degrees Celsius (much less 1.5) appears lost, but we will not find ourselves in worst-case scenarios, and it is unlikely we will go above 3C. Planting trees will not solve the climate problem, he says. Doing climate policy by brute force will not work either. Better to invest in new technologies for carbon removal, clean energy, and electric vehicles and to implement policies like carbon taxes that could fund future green technologies.

It’s a solid argument, but one that depends on nature playing its part in the transition. There is no chance we can limit the worst effects of climate change without saving our remaining ecosystems.

Here are two things to consider. First, there is a large untapped mitigation potential from nature which could offer a substantial contribution towards stabilizing our climate. Second, there is the presence of so-called tipping points which could make unfeasible climate strategies that already require a massive volume of carbon removals.

A straightforward calculus.

Let’s start with the contribution of nature to mitigating climate change. There is scientific consensus that to have a decent chance of staying within 2 degrees, the global community needs to cut emissions by 13 to 15 gigatons by 2030. That’s the equivalent of more than three times the emissions of the EU, and this is on top of existing efforts.

Where could these emission reductions come from? The 6th Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change shows that the near-term mitigation potential of halting ecosystem loss, restoring degraded ecosystems, and improving forest management is on par with those of solar, wind, and nuclear. The contribution of nature to close the gap has been estimated at between 4 and 7 Gt/year. Tapping this potential puts us closer to the 2030 goal. It is still a daunting task, but a feasible one.

It is challenging to construct a case in which the non-nature sectors deliver sufficient emission reductions and removals in time to keep us from significantly overshooting the 2030 and 2050 mitigation goals. While there are important mitigation efforts underway in the renewable and transportation sectors, it is becoming increasingly clear that the speed of transition is not enough. Climate policy is also affected by what is politically palatable.

Then, there are the possible tipping points: situations in which a system transitions, perhaps irreversibly, toward a new equilibrium. Tipping points make decarbonization trajectories much more uncertain and can land us in dangerous territory. For example, evidence is mounting that continued deforestation of the Amazon could trigger a change in regional precipitation patterns, and in turn, an irreversible conversion of the rainforest into savannah with a massive release of carbon into the atmosphere. Hit a tipping point like that and the likelihood of a worst-case climate scenario looks increasingly real. The conservation of ecosystems is like buying a fire insurance policy: You may never have to use it, but it is a good idea to have one. Stopping and reversing ecosystem loss as soon as possible should be a priority, not just because of the immense biodiversity and social benefits they provide, but because of their immense carbon storage potential too.

Where it gets complicated
Policies that ban deforestation, for example, can be impactful. But as Mr. Gates rightly says, policies can be reversed. Finding cheaper substitutes for palm oil, soy, and meat, just to mention some drivers of deforestation, would also be important contributions. But as long as the conservation of nature carries little to no economic value, converting forests and other ecosystems will continue to take place.

A necessary condition to keeping ecosystems standing is to make nature more valuable alive than dead. Carbon markets and programs that reward people and communities for tangible results in preserving nature are some ways to accomplish that. Increasing the price of forest carbon and private sector investment in high-quality emission reductions from nature would be a game-changer. Carbon emissions from nature loss are real–bringing them to net zero will provide transformative reductions. Technological advances in measuring forest loss, as well as changes to protocols by which emissions reductions are calculated, validated, and verified, are already producing high-quality carbon credits, which companies can–and should–buy to compensate for unabated carbon emissions.

Recent research that analyzed transactions reported by over 7,000 companies shows that those engaged in the carbon market are nearly twice as likely to be decarbonizing their operations. They are investing three times more in reducing emissions than companies that steer clear of credits. They are also 3.4 times more likely to have science-based climate targets. In other words, most companies that participate in the carbon market are not getting a free pass on internal decarbonization.

Mr. Gates is right–we need to focus on the tools we have available to reduce carbon emissions. However, there is a global consensus that we need the energy, transportation, construction, and other sectors to increase decarbonization efforts, while simultaneously increasing funding and incentives for ecosystem conservation and restoration. We need to invest in nature-based solutions to fill the gap that other sectors won’t.

We need an everything-all-at-once approach. There are many things that must happen to reduce emissions–but we have the tools and solutions. We need to use them all–if we want to stand a chance of reaching our climate goals.

Gabriel Labbate is the head of the climate mitigation unit at the UN Environment Programme’s ecosystem division.

growstuff Fri 25-Apr-25 14:12:31

Thanks for posting that Norah.

DeeDe Fri 25-Apr-25 16:19:06

As scientists are saying we only have 200 or so years left, before it’s a total ecological collapse.
Least they’re trying to save our planet before it’s too late.

RosieandherMaw Fri 25-Apr-25 16:29:10

Thank you Norah this seems to make a lot of sense.

VenusDeVillendorf Fri 25-Apr-25 16:54:50

@thatweirdoagain! Wow. That is one ignorant post.
Bravo for winning the stupid award!

For those of you who say “how dare ‘they’ do this?”

I say how dare you change the climate with wasteful practices, flying and driving everywhere, and consuming this one planet’s limited resources so recklessly?

You are ‘they’.