They say English is hard . . .

That’s true, but Welsh has different grammatical structures, and pronunciation is very difficult because it uses unique sounds. There isn’t a lot in common between the two languages either, compared with between English and German for example, because Welsh is a Celtic language- it’s easier to learn if you already speak Gaelic though I guess.

escaped

^there is no doubt immersion is the best way to learn^, yes, and interesting that your example mentions at a young age too, missdeke.
I was at school in France for a while when I was 13 and that was when my language really took off. Any older and all sorts of inhibitions seem to hold most people back.

I don’t think it’s just inhibitions - children’s brains are programmed to mop up languages, and the ability declines as you get older. A Swedish child of 4 or 5 who lived next door to us in Oman, acquired enough English during just one month at an English-speaking nursery, to be accepted at the English-speaking school.
Her brother, around 18m older, took a little longer.

Yes, indeed, inhibitions in both the psychological and physiological sense.

Just to add to my pp, within half a year you’d not have known that both children weren’t native speakers.

Witzend

Just to add to my pp, within half a year you’d not have known that both children weren’t native speakers.

I knew a British child who emigrated with her parents to Quebec aged 6 very many years ago, went to a French-speaking school and came top of the class at the end of her first year.

We get children of uni students whose first language isn’t even written in a recognisable script, who do well in KS2 Sats

English is the easiest language to learn. Genders, declensions, conjugations, plural, singular almost absent.

Genders, declensions, conjugations, plural, singular almost absent.

A language with such structures is easier to learn as everything is logical.

Goldieoldie15

English is the easiest language to learn. Genders, declensions, conjugations, plural, singular almost absent.

Are you saying English has no declensions, conjugations, singular or plural?
Really?

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202506/medium-fcz58y-domaine-de-suscinio-rabouan.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202506/medium-a9602o-129905.jpg

There are times when genders matter very much. We went on a visit to a castle yesterday. When we returned, DH got them mixed up, and remarked to French friends, "Nous avons fait une belle tour du château." There I was, NOT, with my masonry trowel constructing the west tower!

I still get amused by the memory of a young boy who had an English father and a German mother. He would answer a question in the “other” language and even use both languages in one sentence.
I find regional English interesting. I used to have to translate Cumbrian into Lancashire when relatives visited.
My GC are bi lingual in lancashire ( or is that Lancastrian) and Northumbrian..
In the Wigan area you hear “ I’m going out tonight, me”
Having lived in Blackpool as a teenager and working Saturday and holiday jobs we had to learn a different accent every fortnight. Glasgow was the most difficult. There were different words for the same thing. Tea cakes , oven bottoms, baps etc.
All our parents were from different parts of the country, speaking with different accents. When I moved to a different part of the county to teach, a pupil said “ Don’t you talk posh, Miss”
Our regional accents seem to be disappearing. Pity.

When I taught in Yorkhire, the children said I talked like the Queen. 😂
I loved the use of thee and thou and it does, of course, avoid the singular or plural ambiguity of "you". Wait here while lights are red was a bit more confusing!
In Dorset I had children in my class who used the expression "where be 'e at?"
I love regional accents.

.... while used to mean until, that is.

growstuff

I agree with you Witzend. I'm a former German/French teacher and did EFL training as another string to my bow (not bough ). English is much harder for foreigners than most native English speakers realise.

What I think many people don’t realise, is that it’s a very different thing from (say) a native English speaker teaching e.g. French or German to a class of ditto native speakers.
There are so many aspects you don’t even think about as a native speaker. My TEFL Thomson and Martinet ‘bible’ was an eye opener when I first started.

That’s why I get a bit worked up when people blithely say, ‘Oh, why would you need training to teach English? If you can speak it…’ etc.
And maybe you can teach it after a fashion, but IMO students paying often hard-earned money deserve something better.

Witzend

growstuff

I agree with you Witzend. I'm a former German/French teacher and did EFL training as another string to my bow (not bough ). English is much harder for foreigners than most native English speakers realise.

What I think many people don’t realise, is that it’s a very different thing from (say) a native English speaker teaching e.g. French or German to a class of ditto native speakers.
There are so many aspects you don’t even think about as a native speaker. My TEFL Thomson and Martinet ‘bible’ was an eye opener when I first started.

That’s why I get a bit worked up when people blithely say, ‘Oh, why would you need training to teach English? If you can speak it…’ etc.
And maybe you can teach it after a fashion, but IMO students paying often hard-earned money deserve something better.

I agree and even with years of experience as a teacher of English in English schools I still had a lot to learn from TEFL training.

English teachers teaching English to people who aren’t native speakers is like a native French (or German or whatever language) teacher, teaching their language to non-French people.
The ability to convey the accent(s) more easily is true, but the teacher is already so familiar with his/her own language that they aren’t always aware of what new speakers don't know.
I wonder how many English teachers of French or German have an FLE or DAF certificate?
I didn’t, though I only taught French in KS1&2.

Milest0ne: “Regional accents seem to be disappearing. Pity.”

I don’t think they are. When I see members of the public interviewed on television I notice how few of them speak RP.

I don’t see it would be a pity if they disappeared - not that they will. They are a class indicator and a trigger for much snobbery, though less than there used to be.

Mamie

When I taught in Yorkhire, the children said I talked like the Queen. 😂
I loved the use of thee and thou and it does, of course, avoid the singular or plural ambiguity of "you". Wait here while lights are red was a bit more confusing!
In Dorset I had children in my class who used the expression "where be 'e at?"
I love regional accents.

An just over the border it's 'where be to, me 'andsome?'

Witzend

growstuff

I agree with you Witzend. I'm a former German/French teacher and did EFL training as another string to my bow (not bough ). English is much harder for foreigners than most native English speakers realise.

What I think many people don’t realise, is that it’s a very different thing from (say) a native English speaker teaching e.g. French or German to a class of ditto native speakers.
There are so many aspects you don’t even think about as a native speaker. My TEFL Thomson and Martinet ‘bible’ was an eye opener when I first started.

That’s why I get a bit worked up when people blithely say, ‘Oh, why would you need training to teach English? If you can speak it…’ etc.
And maybe you can teach it after a fashion, but IMO students paying often hard-earned money deserve something better.

Yes, DD has a degree and took a CELTA course when she decided on a career change.

English is easy learn no masculine or feminism its its structure.

If any one is learning English its best done by some who is English,although there are two areas of England I would not want to be taught English by.
If you are a grand parent or a parent just try to get your children and grand children to learn French as early as they can,as I found French the most difficult of the European languages and French is not a very for giving language.

Oh why can’t we have feminism infoman ?

What I think many people don’t realise, is that it’s a very different thing from (say) a native English speaker teaching e.g. French or German to a class of ditto native speakers .
There are so many aspects you don’t even think about as a native speaker. My TEFL Thomson and Martinet ‘bible’ was an eye opener when I first started

Agree 100% Actually in the same way, as a former MFL HoD I found some native speaker French and German teachers - I especially remember one of each - sometimes made the same mistake of thinking some language concepts obvious or “easy”.
Where their own English had occasional slip-ups much hilarity could ensue and sometimes it was hard to keep a straight face.
In my early days as an MFL teacher I took a holiday job one year teaching English to French students and as you say, an eye opener!
I have two nieces- one half Brazilian who is a native Portuguese speaker /bilingual and her half sister who is half Singapore Chinese and bilingual Cantonese/English as well as learning Mandarin as a child.
I so envy them both as our young people these days are not, on the whole, fluent in other languages. I blame American culture- pop music, films etc
Not many years ago one of the big companies, maybe VW announced that those applying to work for them must be fluent in two languages- so that’s most of Europe as all the teenagers I ever came across in mainland Europe seemed to speak (Americanised) English as well as their own language.

I meant to add- that puts our young people at an immediate disadvantage in the jobs market if they only have what is often dismissed as “schoolboy French”

I was lucky in that our primary school ran an experiment teaching us French by an "audio-visual" method from an early age and I am fairly fluent even today. What I and my expat friends here in Germany noticed is that learning French if you are coming from English is far easier than if you are coming from German.

Just saying - French could be even harder to learn!

Allira, my dd had a foreign language degree, and also took a CELTA course not long afterwards. It was an intensive one-month course - I warned her that it'd be hard going - she didn’t believe me until reality hit! Had thought she’d still be out partying almost every night.

However the course was invaluable when she went travelling not long afterwards - she was able to get TEFL jobs quite easily in various countries, supporting herself for 2 years. And the final job (teaching children for free in a Cambodian orphanage - in a prime tourist area where English would be very useful to them) led into her eventual career in the humanitarian sector.