Stay at Home Mums

Monica you are a joy! To say this thread is poisonous is pure fantasy. No one has said one way is right the other wrong but some people make something out of nothing for amusement
I guess.

MOnica , why do you choose to post much on a thread you see as daft and poisonous?

I have sat on my hands for much of this thread, as I agree with M0nica that it is futile, as the two 'sides' will never agree.

We are women, and mothers (or we wouldn't care) and all mothers want to do the best we can for our children, or at least to tell ourselves that that is the case.

I agree that we should have choice, but the truth is that many people don't. Not by any means usually for reasons of affordability - TBH, the people with very little money are not making as much of a financial sacrifice as those who could have a lot more but opt out.

Numbers mean nothing here, but for the sake of argument and round numbers, if someone 'gives up' £10k but saves £5k as she doesn't have to pay for childcare, and then saves on tax and yet more in expenses for things like commuting, clothing and other work-related things, she is probably not sacrificing anywhere near as much as someone on £100k who is paying £££ in tax, a nanny, a season ticket to London from the Cotswolds and coughing up for the sort of work wardrobe their job requires. Yes, the first woman has less, but not because she has sacrificed more, so let's drop that argument.

Then there are the vagaries of husbands. Love them or hate them, they play a big part in how women's lives are if they have the money and we don't. Again - forget the numbers - what matters is that if your husband is willing to share the family income you are in one position, and if he is not, you are in another, whether he ears £10k or £100k. And that comes down to luck, even if you think that you were very clever to have chosen the right one (as I did 😇).

All sorts of things come into play. It's not about virtuous self sacrifice on either 'side'. There are definitely elements of selfishness depending on whether you prefer to be in charge at home and be the 'lady of the house' or to have a career and get validation from that. We are all different, and neither is right or wrong.

My own take on it all, which I won't bang on about too much as I have said it all before, is that it should be a level playing field (insofar as these things can be) and it is not fair to expect one group to pay for the other.

I absolutely support choice, but as in most areas of life, choice costs money, and I object to some people being forced to pay tax and NI to prop up society when others are able to benefit from the things the other group pay for without contributing a penny. I think it's absolutely reasonable to pay for mothers of babies and toddlers to look after them until they can go to nursery (aged about 4?) but not that it is ok for women to SAH for the rest of their lives, not pay tax or NI and expect a pension at the end of it because others work and pay in.

As I stated in my previous post, after my husband left me ( youngest a newborn)
I had two " choices".
Either go to work - risking being the woman who doesn't put her children's needs first.
Or stay at home and claim benefits, thereby becoming the beloved whipping boy of certain newspapers - the Single Mother on Benefits.
I take pride in the fact that I supported my children by my own labour, tough though it was for a long time.

I don't think M0nica said the thread was "daft and poisonous" - I think she was referring to the put downs as poisonous and that it was ridiculous (daft) to comment if people hadn't got the message from her posts that she felt it was about family choices.

I don't want to rehash the whole debate but I don't see what M0nica has said to be controversial.

Good points from both of you, CLG and NS.

Anniebach

MOnica , why do you choose to post much on a thread you see as daft and poisonous?

Why not? We cannot be serious all the time

Quote M0nica Tue 10-Jun-25 11:19:31
Anniebach
MOnica , why do you choose to post much on a thread you see as daft and poisonous?
Why not? We cannot be serious all the time

I like daft but definitely not poisonous, couldn’t read such

Chocolatelovinggran

As I stated in my previous post, after my husband left me ( youngest a newborn)
I had two " choices".
Either go to work - risking being the woman who doesn't put her children's needs first.
Or stay at home and claim benefits, thereby becoming the beloved whipping boy of certain newspapers - the Single Mother on Benefits.
I take pride in the fact that I supported my children by my own labour, tough though it was for a long time.

On those rarer occasions, when a woman walks out on her husband and children, but they do sometimes happen - the attitude towards the man, left to provide and care for them is quite different.

I distinctly remember following such a case and although this was some time since, I think it's indicative of the way women are viewed by society generally as well as specifically in relation to motherhood.

This particular man chose to work full-time to provide for his two children and he received enormous support from people commenting on his position. I believe he was able to rely on grandparents for school runs - he gave occasional 'updates' which were met with a chorus of approval. He was a "good dad", a "caring father" etc, and locally apparently he'd been offered support if he needed it.

It's quite unusual I think for a mother to abandon her children and it's not a decision I could contemplate, not even "in extremis" and I'm sure others posting on here feel similarly. The mother was roundly condemned of course. The abandoned father said little about her other than the fact that she chose to leave him... "it was her choice" he said and she had always been 'difficult'. IIRR she didn't have a problem with drink or drugs, and if there was another man involved, it wasn't mentioned. The condemnation was uniform, and no-one questioned, at least publicly, why she chose to leave. That of course could be because no-one wanted to upset the man, which is understandable - and it was a private matter anyway.

The "single mother on benefits" meme - it used to be almost an obsession with one or two tabloids - largely excludes the father from the scorn heaped on her. Of course he's 'mentioned' but in a "what-can-you-expect", "typical male" manner. The blame is nearly always laid on the girl / woman, almost exclusively. I've only ever heard one high-profile individual roundly castigate such men, and that was Boris Johnson.

In 1995 writing for The Spectator he said "and that brings me to the last and greatest group of male culprits. Most of these single mothers have had the common sense to detect that the modern British male is useless. If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment."
"If he is white collar, he is likely to be little better."

Bit of a generalisation there, but Johnson does do overemphasis quite frequently.

My point is that women, especially in their role as mothers, have always been closely observed by society - their choices, whether they choose to stay at home with their children or work, frequently come under intense scrutiny and judgements made on the basis of the feelings or world-view of the observer. Both sexes.

Giving birth is a unique experience and that bond, which can be instant, is hard to define. I belong to that 'club' that would move heaven-and-earth for their child, and I did both stay-at-home and the going-out-to-work bit and both were immensely rewarding and my son was a happy, giggling, boisterous child throughout. I wish I could 'go back' and experience it all again...

But, that's me - motherhood doesn't always 'come naturally', not all feel that bond instantly. Raising a child in an insecure and very economically unequal world is a constant stress and a constant battle; worrying about your child becomes second-nature, and 'guilt' is always simmering under the surface, only balanced by the sheer joy in watching them achieve their milestones. And simply being with them. Women are also human and individual, and I think we should just cut them some slack, whatever choices they make, whether it be SAH or working, and stop judging whether they have or have not 'put their children's needs first'... who the heck are we to judge?