Does anyone else feel like we’re living like a dystopian novel?

There is such a poor food culture in the UK. McDonalds and Coca cola is considered a proper meal for kids. In Italy there are restaurants called cooperatives where you can get an incredible 3 course meal (with wine!) for €12 ( used to be €10). The one near my family is always busy.

The OP would consider these co-op restaurants to be communist as they are not run for profit but to provide decent food for workers - “Pranzo Di Lavoro “ are “ workers lunches” - 3 course meals with wine/ coffee etc at reasonable price. The one I’ve been to several times is in a beautiful courtyard covered in a vine pergola - and it’s always packed.

If poor Italian families can afford to eat out at cooperatives @ 12€ per head (with wine), it seems their poor families are less poor than ours. That’s not much less than MPs pay for soup and a steak.

M0nica

I think that there is a big difference between the, usually voluntary, canteens run by special interest groups, for local specific needs and the kind of chain cafes the government has in mind.

A local group runs a weekly lunch club in our village hall, using vegetables grown on their allotment, it is a social event as well as providing a selection of meals hot and cold for a donation price. These kind of groups are a world away from what the government has in mind. If they were to suggest funding local groups offering meals to meet local needs, it would be very different.

Cariad You say only 8% of people of 70 are healthy, I have read statistics like these, but never worked out what they mean by healthy. Many people of 70 are taking a statin, or possible a mild blood pressure pill but are actually very healthy doing everything they always did and devoid of any noticeable symptoms of anything that in anyway constrains their lives.

In fact 10 or 20 years ago they may well not have been taking any pills, not because the drugs were not available, but because the limit at which they were prescribed was higher than today. We will all soon be classified as unhealthy simply because the medical establishment keep lowering the point at which medication is issued.

Some years ago I was told I had kidney disease because some measurement fell below a level which had just been lowered. No symptoms, no medication, but annual monitoring. The next year the measurement was in the healthy level so all the monitoring stopped. I have no idea what it has happened since, but I could be classified as healthy merely because someone hasn't measured something recently.

I'm presuming they mean the same thing as I do by "healthy" - ie no medications needed/no operations needed/feeling fine/having the energy they need to lead a normal full life etc.

To me - having to take pills for anything on a regular basis (even if one feels fine/leads a fully normal life) = unhealthy. Right now I'm working on becoming healthy again personally - but right now I've got a deaf left ear (finally been told the truth about that - that it's an ear infection and not "age"), high blood pressure (neighbour stress), pre-diabetes (neighbour stress and leftover Lockdown stress), heartburn (/maybe leftover Covid?), a foot healing up from nail removal and am not taking any pills for anything - and do not regard my body as healthy/am determined to get it back to being healthy.

I'll regard it as healthy again once all that has gone (I'm working on it currently) and all that is left is having to wear glasses (as I have from childhood). Hence I was horrified to find only about 8% of women (don't know about men) are healthy once over 70.....followed by determination to be amongst that 8%. So I would count someone with a cold, for instance, as being "healthy - with a temporary ailment"....but that's about as far as it goes imo...

Any pain/discomfort/interference with life/having to take pills regularly long-term is not my definition of healthy.

It’s an interesting idea. I agree that it is better for people, where able, to prepare their own meals, however there are some people - those in temporary accommodation with limited facilities and those with illness or disabilities that might struggle to prepare a nutritious meal. Our local village hall/ social club prepares lunch for the elderly once a week and it’s popular especially for people living alone. We have been trying to teach our learning disabled son to prepare simple meals for years, but his repertoire is very limited ( toast sandwiches hot potatoes and microwave meals) because we are worried for his future once we are gone. I’ve often said he needs the equivalent of an old fashioned hall of residence- with food and housekeeping included!

Oh, well, by that criteria, I've been unhealthy for years 😁
My Consultant was happy with me, though!

Allira

Oh, well, by that criteria, I've been unhealthy for years 😁
My Consultant was happy with me, though!

Me too. Though my criteria for “healthy” includes taking medication if necessary to enable me to do all the things I could do when I didn’t need the meds.

We must have brought it on ourselves!

Any pain/discomfort/interference with life/having to take pills regularly long-term is not my definition of healthy.

How about children who live with health problems?
Should they buck up and get themselves fit?

Allira

We must have brought it on ourselves!

How about children who live with health problems?
Should they buck up and get themselves fit?

CariadAgain
Are you saying that children with ASC with the need for some medication are unhealthy?

Mollygo
If poor Italian families can afford to eat out at cooperatives @ 12€ per head (with wine), it seems their poor families are less poor than ours. That’s not much less than MPs pay for soup and a steak.
It’s not just about poor families is it, it’s the whole food culture. “workers lunches “ show that good quality food is available to many more people than just better off people who can afford regular restaurant prices. There are food kitchens in Italy where people pay what they can afford and it’s good quality - pastas, meat/ fish/ vegetables/ fruit not ultra processed food which many rely on in the U.K. and leads to many health issues , obesity etc

Government/media: The country is facing a crisis. Too many people are obese and unfit because of poor life choices.

Commentators: It's just a case of cooking from scratch and learning to budget! Stuff about 'the latest iPhone'. My mum could make a meal for 30p - it's perfectly feasible. Soup. Markets selling off vegetables at the end of the day. Far too much money goes out on benefits. Nobody is in poverty these days. Shouldn't have children if they can't afford them. Too many people eat junk food. Etc.

Government: Ok then, let's give it a try? If we rent cheap space and use basic ingredients we could make nutritious meals such as soup or stews using ingredients such as vegetables being donated or sold off, and people could socialise whilst eating, so help with loneliness and isolation. It might give people ideas for nutritious meals they can cook at home, and could save money for the NHS, too.

Commentators Communism! 'They' need to learn to cook at school. What if people 'can afford' to pay more but choose to use the centres? 'We' didn't have that, so why should 'they'? How can meals for £3 be feasible? £3!! How will families in poverty afford that? You can't make meals for £3! Taxpayers' subsidising. Etc

Nevertheless it wouldn’t benefit those families, including one DD, for whom 12€ per head would mean not eating out.
There are food kitchens . . .
Most often run by charities and aimed at the poor and homeless. These also exist in the UK. e.g The Trussel Trust, or Feeding Britain.
Celebrity chefs also cook to provide meals at St Cuthbert’s Centre, using food that would otherwise be discarded.

I live in a small town in Oxfordshire.
A few years ago the parish church, aided by a professional chef and a team of volunteers, opened a drop in cafe. The food is provided by local supermarkets, stuff which used to go to waste. Volunteers provide cake, biscuits hot/cold drinks from 3pm.
The main meal with pudding (a choice of three mains and puddings) is served later on. They offer a takeaway service too. This is only one day a week of course. Everything is free, donations are welcome if affordable.
Lonely people have enjoyed the company and conversation as well as the meal. There's a good mix of participants, no-one feels singled out as 'poor'. Long may the scheme continue.

I just don't think that what would be served cheaply in the way of "healthy food" will be wanted by those children who come from the families who are most in need. It seems to me that there are not many children who require fattening up which suggests that they eat unhealthy diets and more often likely through choice.
If this was targeted at families where there is a drug/alcohol/vulnerability problem with a fully joined up service to get the children to the venues, it might be a great idea.
I'm not saying do nothing for the poverty stricken, I'm just not sure this is the answer with the information we have so far.

Any pain/discomfort/interference with life/having to take pills regularly long-term is not my definition of healthy.

I think that’s nonsense. By your definition I’ve been unhealthy for more than half my life. I’ve taken thyroxine for an underactive thyroid since I was about 30yo. Taking a tablet renders me healthy and able to conduct my life as normal. Or, conversely, if a tablet a day means I’m unhealthy, can I claim for 40 years back payment of PIP? And a Motorbility car, too, while I’m at it.

Aldom

I live in a small town in Oxfordshire.
A few years ago the parish church, aided by a professional chef and a team of volunteers, opened a drop in cafe. The food is provided by local supermarkets, stuff which used to go to waste. Volunteers provide cake, biscuits hot/cold drinks from 3pm.
The main meal with pudding (a choice of three mains and puddings) is served later on. They offer a takeaway service too. This is only one day a week of course. Everything is free, donations are welcome if affordable.
Lonely people have enjoyed the company and conversation as well as the meal. There's a good mix of participants, no-one feels singled out as 'poor'. Long may the scheme continue.

Was that on the TV news recently? I saw an item about a similar scheme, which sounded very good. I don't know where it was based, but it was 'pay what you can' and also run by a professional chef. I'd like to see more of that.

I don't think we should let perfect be the enemy of good. It may be the case that not everyone would benefit, but that doesn't mean that those who could should be denied the opportunity. By that logic there should be no high end shops or pretty much any restaurants, and who would want to see that happen?

SueDonim

^Any pain/discomfort/interference with life/having to take pills regularly long-term is not my definition of healthy.^

I think that’s nonsense. By your definition I’ve been unhealthy for more than half my life. I’ve taken thyroxine for an underactive thyroid since I was about 30yo. Taking a tablet renders me healthy and able to conduct my life as normal. Or, conversely, if a tablet a day means I’m unhealthy, can I claim for 40 years back payment of PIP? And a Motorbility car, too, while I’m at it.

I could be wrong, but I believe that PIP is for the disabled, not the unhealthy, and that Motorbility is just a scheme that allows people to spend their PIP payments on transport, rather than an additional allowance.

My tongue was firmly in my cheek, Doodledog when I wrote that post. If I didn’t have thyroxine tablets, though, I would be unable to function and could well need support from the state.

I’m grateful that I’m 70yo and don’t take anything that’s related to my age, eg blood pressure pills or statins, or need any joint replacements. In my book, I’m healthy so far and most thankful for that.

My tongue was firmly in my cheek, Doodledog when I wrote that post.
Sorry - sense of humour failure on my part 😀

vegansrock

Mollygo
If poor Italian families can afford to eat out at cooperatives @ 12€ per head (with wine), it seems their poor families are less poor than ours. That’s not much less than MPs pay for soup and a steak.
It’s not just about poor families is it, it’s the whole food culture. “workers lunches “ show that good quality food is available to many more people than just better off people who can afford regular restaurant prices. There are food kitchens in Italy where people pay what they can afford and it’s good quality - pastas, meat/ fish/ vegetables/ fruit not ultra processed food which many rely on in the U.K. and leads to many health issues , obesity etc

750 McDonald's in Italy as of last year vegansrock another 200 planned this year, I suspect their client base isn’t just tourists.