Child free and smug

None of us has children to look after us in old age. But like it or not this is what will probably happen to most of us, one way or another.

DH had a heart attack and complications 5 years ago. I was quite capable of coping, but DC were down like a shot, even tjough both faced long difficult journeys and, yes, they were both a real help, sharing visiting and taking on some ofnthe driving between hospital and home.

As a result, when we decided to downsize last year we decided to move somewhere more convenient for our children. Dd recced our planned new location, liked it so much she bought a house there herself so she lives a 10 minute drive from our new abode.

We do not need help now and intend to stay independent. There is a highly rated care home, three doors down from our new home. But if the flak does hit the fan. It will be easier for both our children to deal with any emergency.

I wasn't implying that you have the right to expect your children to look after you in old age. I never thought so as I don't think it is fair. Nevertheless. I am very glad that they live close enough so that I am able to see them all regularly.

Magenta8

I have friends who had three children in quick succession shortly after they married. I delayed having children for financial reasons and they used to tease me and say that my two cats wouldn't look after me when I was old.

Their children all grown up now and one lives in Japan, one in Australia and the youngest lives in China. Mine all live in the same county as I do.

It just shows that having children does not necessarily ensure that they will be there to care for you in old age.

I didn’t have my children to care for me in old age.
I’m currently caring for an entitled and miserable 96 year old and wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
My children know full well that, whilst I will always be delighted to see them , I shall never ever be expecting them to jump when I call and will never make them feel guilty for not being at my beck and call 24/7.

I have lots of photos of my descendants on my computer ready at the touch of a mouse.

Allira genealogy deals with ancestors not descendants.

You wouldn’t like my phone M0nica. I have 4 GC ranging in age from 10-18 and have over 1000 photos and video clips dating back to when they were newborns up to recent holidays and days out we’ve enjoyed together.

I don’t inflict them on anyone else. It’s my own personal photo album and it gives me pleasure to look back on them 😊

M0nica

I have both DC and DGC. i do not have a single photo of any of them on my phone.

Thankfully I do not mix with the kind of people who indulge in endless descendant talk. All my friends I made through shared interests and that is what we talk - probably just as boring to outsiders.

But you did post on the genealogy thread

Aveline. Do hope you still have your family atound to help when you are old and needy, some will not be so fortunate. Some will have losses to illness, needs to move for work. I never had my children with an expectation they will look after me when old.

“…descendant talk”😁

I have both DC and DGC. i do not have a single photo of any of them on my phone.

Thankfully I do not mix with the kind of people who indulge in endless descendant talk. All my friends I made through shared interests and that is what we talk - probably just as boring to outsiders.

fancyflowers

I can't imagine my life without my adult children and grandchildren. One adult child lives five minutes away and one a train journey away and we see them both regularly. They are my world.
I do have childless friends though, and they seem happy with their lives and hobbies, so I get that children are not everyone's choice.

I do love my family, but would never say they are ‘my world’, but all due respect to you. It’s not because I live an action packed life, it’s just that I have a horror of being a ‘burden’, or even a responsibility.
I hate the thought that my family would be having conversations about who was going to ‘have me’ at Christmas or on holiday, though they have never given me any indication that this would happen. I think it’s because I was always the one in charge ( in this part of Scotland it’s called the ‘ heid sherang’), that I hate being seen as in need of care!
I have told all my family and left instruction that, should I have dementia and beg them not to put me in a care home, they must ignore me and do it sooner rather than later. Good dinners and an evening gin and tonic are all I ask!

mrsmeldrew

I am child free by choice and I get so bored when attending groups - all granchildren and baby talk. Friends insist on showing me photos of their grandchildren.

Refreshingly, at my book group we talk about the book and then world events and UK politics. No grandchildren talk!

I have a full set of DCs and GCs but I too get bored when the photos come out and the talk turns to how clever and advanced for their age etc.

I love my family dearly and see them regularly but I don't want to share photos and talk about them at every given opportunity neither do I wish to hear all about other people's, usually wonderful, GCs.

I can't imagine my life without my adult children and grandchildren. One adult child lives five minutes away and one a train journey away and we see them both regularly. They are my world.
I do have childless friends though, and they seem happy with their lives and hobbies, so I get that children are not everyone's choice.

windmill1

Having a child/children with the selfish intention that they should dedicate themselves to being an "insurance policy" for old age is an appalling ambition.

Oh I agree 100 percent. A lot of women a run absolutely ragged trying to look after elderly parents, work full time and bring up children. It's a lot of pressure to put on your offspring.

It's just that in tbe absence of family, it is worrying to think about who will (or won't) be there for you. In my case I hope to move to a retirement village which has different levels of care which you can switch to as your needs change. However, that requires an awful lot of money, as the fees are very large.

I am child free by choice and I get so bored when attending groups - all granchildren and baby talk. Friends insist on showing me photos of their grandchildren.

Refreshingly, at my book group we talk about the book and then world events and UK politics. No grandchildren talk!

Smileless2012

Mr. S. had a vasectomy in the mid 80's CariadAgain and I had to give my consent.

Pleased to hear there was equality there.

Though, goodness only knows why the medics would think anyone other than the person themselves had a say about this either way. It's up to the woman herself and only her. It's up to the man himself and only him.

I still tend to assume the subject of children is brought up very early on in a relationship - and, at that point, both people can check if they are on the same page on that one.
I know I'd always say pretty much straight off that my personal thing is "Won't ever have children...the End". In the event there was only ever one out of the boyfriends I had that would have been bothered about not having any (ie the others were universally not wanting them or not bothered) and, funnily enough, he was a son of the "Mum" figure I adopted/am still friendly with all this time later. So he went on and had two children with another woman (now adults and he is divorced from their mother now).

The woman is the one that has the pregnancies and childbirth and still tends to have the major parenting role. But the man is basically the one that takes the lions share of paying for raising those children - and is expected to do so...even if he told the woman he wasnt going to have any children ever...but she did so anyway. Yep...I'd have got sterilised even faster if I'd been a man...so much so that I would have stayed a virgin until I was sure that no woman could try and get me to pay for a child I hadnt agreed to have. As a woman - then I had a fallback position for those 7 years until I had the chance of that sterilisation operation (ie I'd have been in a clinic like a shot ensuring the pregnancy stopped). I never needed an abortion in the event - though it would have taken me literally minutes from "Oh h*ck - why didnt the contraception work?" to having booked an appointment to have that.

Mr. S. had a vasectomy in the mid 80's CariadAgain and I had to give my consent.

I think part of loudly proclaiming their satisfaction with being childfree is in direct response of how much criticism they receive. I’ve witnessed people tutting over other people’s reproductive choices, having no hesitation about telling others they’ll regret it later, how selfish they are, that there’s something wrong with them, etc. I have friends who have only one child who’ve been told all of that! Even drs who refuse to give women tubal ligations in case a hypothetical future husband wants kids.

Having a child/children with the selfish intention that they should dedicate themselves to being an "insurance policy" for old age is an appalling ambition.

sodapop

Kandinsky

I personally, think it’s still fairly unusual for a woman to never want children.

I disagree Kandinsky I have friends and a daughter who are quite clear about not wanting children, they are not such a minority.
I was quite clear about not wanting more children in the early 70s but needed my husband's permission to be sterilised. Thank goodness we have moved on.

I hadn't clicked that wives needed a husbands permission to be sterilised!!! Betcha husbands didn't need their wives permission to be sterilised though.........

I wonder if that explains the fact that the NHS refused to sterilise me in my 20's (ie the 1970s) - though I had reached adulthood even by the old definition (over 21). I had to spend 7 years on the Pill before a little article popped up in "Cosmopolitan" magazine saying Marie Stopes clinics were now sterilising women (well they were then.....) and was at one of those clinics literally within weeks handing over the money for that and "Job done".

I'm shocked whenever I realise women still have to argue and/or pay for their sterilisations - but men don't seem to have to do so!!!!!! Either they should do both sexes (yep...quite obviously they should) or neither and not discriminate like this.

There is the argument that even women who don't want children could land up being perfectly responsible "mothers" and ensuring their children are properly fed/housed/health looked after/educated/taught manners - but it's not Society's choice to make. It's their choice to make - obviously.

Some of us just really really don't want that. The odd thing too is that I recall finding someone who was absolutely desperate to be a mum crying her eyes out twice in quick succession - as she'd just found out that (yet again) she still wasnt pregnant. I landed up trying to comfort her twice about it - and the very first person she came to tell at work was me when she then did become pregnant promptly all those years later and her comment was "It's very odd - considering how much I know you DON'T want children and yet you were the one that understood how I felt and how upset I was seemingly not being able to have one. Yet none of the people with children understood like you did".

I had to do mental somersaults and stand my own way of thinking on its head to understand - but I did. Cue for I was in no doubt whatsoever that the pregnancy would work out just fine and she'd have that baby - and her next comment was "Oh....thank you....that's my baby's first present you've just given me". But I could see her little face just shone as soon as she knew she was pregnant the month after I'd caught her crying the second time - after about 10 years of wanting one.

Aldom

Allira

As I put it - "I've come from a line of women who aren't mums

Sorry, I'm being a bit dense here but I'm
Is it just me?

No, Allira I too wonder how a person came into existence from a line of women who weren't mothers????

I use precise language usually. There are "mums" and there are "mothers". "Mums" are motherly/wish to be mums etc. "Mothers" have biologically given birth - but are not warm "mum" figures and didn't particularly want children (but that's what happened).

I had a "mother" (dead now) and I have a "mum" figure (mother of an ex-boyfriend of many years back now) and who wanted to be a "mum" so much that she had that ex-boyfriend about 9 months to the day after getting married and has been going round mothering people ever since.

No-one else has ever asked me what I meant - they knew already the difference between the two words. I've been calling my mother "mother" (rather than "mum") since I was a child......and realised that's what she was.

I wonder if that expectation is placed more on daughters than sons.

My children were in their teens when my husband was diagnosed with a terminal illness, just beginning their Independent lives at university/first jobs.

Then when he died the one thing I wanted more than anything was that they would be able to live the lives they wanted and deserved, without having to alter or curtail them in any way because they felt responsible for me.

Now they are adults, enjoying careers and relationships, edging their way to retirement, I don’t feel any differently. I would never want them to alter their lives, or give up things they really wanted to do, to take care of me in my old age.

I’ve made what provision I can to prevent that, and have made sure they know my expectation is that they will live the lives that are best for them.

There’s something about the attitude of “have children to care for you when you are old” that I find - well - really distasteful I suppose.

SylviaPlathssister

My husband and I, have looked after and aided six old folks.My husband's Step Mother and Father. My Mother and Father, and his Mother and Father.
They all lived into great old age, dying at, 90.96,97,94 96 and 83 (my mother was the youngest, who suffered from Dementia) None of them prepared for their old age. They lived in houses unsuitable for frail people full of stuff.
They all became vulnerable through ageing.
Without children they would have had to depend on the honesty and care of strangers.
Knowing what I know now now, about our future, I am so glad that I have children.
We have prepared for our old age. All our paper work is in order, we have downsized and got rid of clutter. It's difficult to absolutely prepare, but we have done all that is humanly possible.
Of course I didn't produce children to look after me, if I develop failing physical and cognitive ability, But I am glad they are there. To suffer dementia and have no one to care, would be terrifying.

You are very lucky that you will have a loving family looking out for you. Sadly I have no children (not through choice) and no nieces or nephews either, so I will face old age entirely on my own, and you are right, it's terrifying.

Each to their own . When I married at 31 I knew I wanted children and was lucky to have two wonderful DC .
I have a lot of friends who’ve never wanted children , these friends are in their 50s and 60s now and have certainly never been smug . In fact the smug ones are the ones with lots of children and grandchildren and constantly show you photos of their DC and DGC .
I’ve found that the child free friends are very loyal and value their friendships .

My husband and I, have looked after and aided six old folks.My husband's Step Mother and Father. My Mother and Father, and his Mother and Father.
They all lived into great old age, dying at, 90.96,97,94 96 and 83 (my mother was the youngest, who suffered from Dementia) None of them prepared for their old age. They lived in houses unsuitable for frail people full of stuff.
They all became vulnerable through ageing.
Without children they would have had to depend on the honesty and care of strangers.
Knowing what I know now now, about our future, I am so glad that I have children.
We have prepared for our old age. All our paper work is in order, we have downsized and got rid of clutter. It's difficult to absolutely prepare, but we have done all that is humanly possible.
Of course I didn't produce children to look after me, if I develop failing physical and cognitive ability, But I am glad they are there. To suffer dementia and have no one to care, would be terrifying.