Flight of fancy - protest against doctors’ strike

Iam64

I will always be grateful to the nurse who was responsible for the end of life care for my husband. Her shifts were 12 hours but she was often present much longer. Her professional skills couldn’t be faulted. What made her involvement so important was her understanding and care for my husband, whilst responding so well to his wife and daughters.
She had a three year old son. She loved her job but could have earned as much on the checkout at the supermarket.

It is nurses that have understood and highlighted my DHs ongoing illness. They have been far more intuitive than ,in our case, Vascular consultant.

I totally have no sympathy with junior Dr's. strike. Live's will be lost.

I have no sympathy either. They are extremely well paid and get massive pensions.

In the very sought after village where my late Mum lived there were about 6 retired doctors. All living in massive houses, top of the range cars, boats in the drive, etc. they all retired quite young too. You would be pushed to buy a house there for under £1 million.

I haven't got any sympathy for them, either. There are already massive backlogs of patients whose appointments and treatments have been cancelled because of previous strikes.

I don't agree with this action either, after the 22% awarded last year.

However, to say, as you do, Primrose, that they are "extremely well paid" is just not true. You gave as examples retired doctors, so retirees having worked through the same sort of economic conditions as other other retirees. While there are certainly pensioners who do not have enough to live on, I see with my own eyes non-professional pensioners who are doing very nicely thank you (and I would consider myself to be fortunate to be one of them). Doctors are obviously paid as highly qualified professionals and, towards the latter part of their careers most of them probably are doing well. However, at the moment, for anything other than senior doctors, the going is pretty tough. There is understaffing and huge demand and all sorts of other problems. The doctors that have retired and are retiring now did not start their careers with massive student debts
and extortionately expensive accommodation to find.

I don't agree with them striking now, because of the more generous payment agreed last year and because I think they will lose public sympathy and respect. But I think we need to be honest that our doctors are the most badly paid in the developed world and they face much greater challenges, not least hospitals that are, in many cases, not fit for purpose.

foxie48

"Thousands of resident doctors cannot get jobs in the NHS, prompting the British Medical Association to open a formal dispute with the government over “training bottlenecks”.

Half of all doctors who have completed their first two years of training have said they have not been able to secure a job from August 6 this year, when the new roles begin."
The Times 29.07.25

And people wonder why resident doctors have become militant? They complete a 5/6 year uni course often having a huge student loan, do two years as a foundation doctor on pretty poor pay, then can't get a job with the only employer that they can work for.

Who on earth orchestrates this madness? It beggars belief doesn’t it? What causes this log jam and mismatch of needs -v- availability?

Last week on the ward at Christie’s a lovely nurse said she’d secured a post there over 180 applicants for the job! Ridiculous isn’t it?

She said “I think the fact that I’d done some of my training here in the past helped me.”

FGT it is absolutely bonkers and is extremely stressful for resident doctors, it's not as though they can apply to several employers as it is all one centralised, anonymised, system based on points, working at a hospital or in a deanery and proving to be a reliable unflappable doctor carries absolutely no weight in an application. It is all about earning points for qualifications, published research, and how well a doctor performs in an online interview.

What is also bonkers is that young resident doctors seem completely clueless as to the terms of their training regime before they applied. And this group is supposed to have higher intelligence? It definitely needs to be made very clear what the training is at the very beginning!

You’re not serious surely ronib. Can you think of a profession where the university students are told when they apply, in detail, exactly what to expect 5 or 6 years later? How remote is that day to a 17 year old?

Yes I am perfectly serious - you would need to live in a cave not to know that there are serious problems with training and retaining doctors Casdon.

As there are in any professional job of equivalent status ronib. More training placements is the answer, not putting able British applicants off applying for medical school, which would result in an even larger skills gap than we have already. You don’t need to be of medical student calibre to work that out.

Work experience should be obligatory before applying for medical school. One of my sons said definitely no after one week of work experience in a local hospital.

Ronib I think you let your distrust and dislike of doctors cloud your judgement of the current situation. You may think they are adequately recompensed but expecting idealistic 16/17 year olds to appreciate what they might experience 8 or 10 years later, in a profession which has, over the past 8 to 10 years gone through many adverse changes is like expecting them to be able to read tarot cards. And yes, the decision to become a doctor does start early in most doctors lives, because they need top grades at GCSE, top grades at "A" level" including choosing the right subjects (most med schools won't take you without a top grade in Chemistry) and also undertaking voluntary work and work experience in settings that show commitment and the ability to work in the "right" environment.

Ronib my daughter volunteered in a care home for a year during her "A" levels. Most candidates have done work experience. If your son knew medicine was not for him after a week of working in a hospital, he made the right decision.

Working in a care home will not equal work experience in a local hospital foxie48. It should be obligatory.

Are you going to be the volunteer administrator of such a scheme in your local hospital ronib. Do you have any idea of how many potential medical students would want a work experience? Have you thought of the time it would take qualified doctors to explain what they are doing to a school child, and how patients would feel about it? It’s unrealistic.

Casdon what is unrealistic is for a 17 year old to walk blindly into the wrong career. My son’s school was able to organise a week in the local hospital and it really wasn’t that hard. I am delighted that they did.

I spoke to my uncle last night, who is a retired hospital administrator. He has been in the nhs all his working life and despairs at the junior doctors. They earn a lot of money already. You can't say they want 22%+ in order to make up for previous years. No-one (& I include myself, having worked for a local council for nearly 10 years) in the public sector has had anywhere near that kind of pay rise for years. If the government caves in, then everyone else will want the same.

Selfish and unwarranted.

ronib your sin is one 17 year old with his experience. Extrapolating that as though it’s research based practice really doesn’t help
You see to dislike medics and your posts show a lack of balance as though all your nhs experience and knowledge has been dreadful

Iam64 no not at all. An individual’s personal experience may well be dreadful but… it’s a very weak argument that you have used.
Along with many others, I really detest a medical workforce who constantly strike!

ronib

*Casdon * what is unrealistic is for a 17 year old to walk blindly into the wrong career. My son’s school was able to organise a week in the local hospital and it really wasn’t that hard. I am delighted that they did.

How old is your son ronib? Young people going to medical school don’t walk blindly. I know quite a few young doctors, and all of them gained health related experience before being accepted at medical school. The drop out rate is relatively low compared with other degrees too.

“Detest a medical workforce that is constantly on strike”
That’s a real stretch and exaggeration. The medical workforce is not constantly on strike.
Our problems with recruitment and retention will increase unless the issues highlighted by foxie and others here are addressed

FWIW I’m unhappy with the current strike action. Those involved must be as aware as we are that the nhs was left in a dreadful state and it will take time, money and good will to improve things for medics and patients

What is the tally so far for strike action? Is it 11 or 12? With another 5 mooted until January? What a farce.

Ronib Working in a care home is much better experience than a week's work experience in a hospital. We have a consultant surgeon in the family and also her best friend's parents were both doctors so she got the experience of seeing that end of the job. What medical schools like to see is a commitment to working in the less glamorous side of medicine. Care homes are not easy places for young people to work, they need empathy, patience and the ability to cope with smells and sights that can be quite off putting. Potential post grad students can often improve their chances by working as a health care assistant in hospital, care homes or a day centre, all are seen as very valid.

I seem to remember my 17 year old son being unable to cope with patients suffering from cancer. He was upset to see their distress and wasn’t emotionally equipped to deal with it. He’s very good around older people though. foxie48

Fortunately my daughter seems able to cope with both and lots more besides, that's why she's a good doctor.