Hmmm, 200 Years Of The Railways.

MaizieD

Ah, yes. Dr Beeching’s report received and implemented by Transport Minister Ernest Marples. Who wasn’t at all influenced by his interests in construction firms engaged in motorway building…

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Marples died in Monaco, where he had gone to avoid being prosecuted for fraud in the UK…

Wow. Just looke up Marples on Wikipedia and l had no idea of how corrupt he was.

Talk about vested interests.
Before fleeing to Monaco he spent years tending to his vineyard on his French Estate.

Not bad for a boy from w modest fqmily who went to Stretford Gramnar School.

A real Conservative at heart.

l bet Thatcher was proud of him!

I think there should be a thread on Gransnet which outs the dodgy but past and prsent real deeds of well known people.

We could call it. Do they past Muster?

@ David. It’s nice that we agree for once 😆

But I said ‘integrated transport system’, not ‘subsidised’.

“Who pays for the road infrastructure? Not the road users!”

That is simply not true, add together Road Tax, Fuel Tax, VAT on Fuel Tax, VAT on car purchase, not to mention congestion charges. Vehicle Excise Duty + Fuel Tax raised £32billion last year+ VAT on private use. Probably over £50 billion in total.

How much Taxation does public transport and rail raise precisely nothing

Road building has been an enormous revenue raiser

pen50

Ashcombe

Not only did Beeching desecrate the railways, Thatcher's privatisation changed the whole industry into a profit making concern for shareholders which is why our journeys by rail are so much more expensive than in most of Europe.

I know half of Gransnet still loathes the Thatch, but rail privatisation happened several years after she was ousted.

DH tells me that you are right to correct me, pen50 as it was John Major's government to blame! My apologies!

Road use taxation.

It’s difficult to pin down because diverse taxation and diverse spending complicate the calculation.

Highways Agency spent over £4 billion last year on main roads and motorways this includes the cost of PFI funding new projects
Local Authorities maintain local roads and spent £3.5 billion funded by Council Tax + government grant

Over £50 billion a year is raised from road use taxation yet less than £8 billion spent on roads,

Ashcombe

pen50

Ashcombe

Not only did Beeching desecrate the railways, Thatcher's privatisation changed the whole industry into a profit making concern for shareholders which is why our journeys by rail are so much more expensive than in most of Europe.

I know half of Gransnet still loathes the Thatch, but rail privatisation happened several years after she was ousted.

DH tells me that you are right to correct me, pen50 as it was John Major's government to blame! My apologies!

Thatcher resigned in 1990, Major succeeded her. Rail privatisation 1993. Not really ‘several years’ after Thatcher and a direct continuation of her privatisation programme. I think we can hold her responsible 😆

How much Taxation does public transport and rail raise precisely nothing

So the companies which run rail franchises don’t pay corporate taxes, don’t pay dividends to shareholders which are (lightly) taxed? Don’t purchase anything (VAT) and don’t pay their employees? Gosh🙄

MaizieD

^How much Taxation does public transport and rail raise precisely nothing^

So the companies which run rail franchises don’t pay corporate taxes, don’t pay dividends to shareholders which are (lightly) taxed? Don’t purchase anything (VAT) and don’t pay their employees? Gosh🙄

You know perfectly well VAT is reclaimed by businesses and you ticket is zero rated for VAT

I looked at the accounts of our local rail operator Chiltern Rail owned by Arriva, last year they did actually pay £1.7 million in taxation last year
Contributing to the profit they made was a £12 million subsidy, I make that a £10.3m net loss

I didn’t address shareholders Arriva is owned by Deutschebahn the German rail operator so I don’t suppose shareholders in the UK contribute much if any.

Rail employees do pay tax but so do the road truck and car industries, I’m pretty sure rail employees are far fewer than road using industries.

I never had to use public transport to get to school, like many others (outside the capital obviously) I walked to school from aged 5 to 16 because schools were local. They had catchment areas and OFSTED ratings had not been dreamed up yet.

Schools had School Buses for those who needed them.
Parents weren’t always out at work from 8:30 am til whenever time either so fewer incentives to collect kids en route.
So barely any 3pm cars parked up in side streets (in winter with engines running) while they wait for the bell to go- thankyou! no car zones have just literally “driven” the problem a couple of streets away.

Result lots of children are for their entirety of their school days, deprived of the independence and autonomy of getting themselves to school.

Result: children are often infantilised later and later into adulthood until they too can join the “autogeddon” by getting their own car.
All this has happened in the last 30 years.

I hadnt realized how important the road transport and car industries was to the economy it’s a massive revenue earner.
Our love of owning a car and travelling at will is taxed massively, we are real mugs.

I used to be a trainspotter in late 50`s and early 60`s.
Brackley was on the Great Central London Extension line wise .
I have seen some of build up for the 200th year , on Breakfast TV, plus in Railway magazines I get as well, locally we lost two lines , but today HS2 by passes Brackley by about a mile to the North East and uses some of the former Great central line to the South of the town , but it will not have a station on HS2 .
Mick

I so wish I’d bought a ticket for ‘The Great Gathering’ in Derby this weekend…billed as a Glastonbury for train lovers. Alas I didn’t and it could have sold out several times over.

we were traveling in portugal last week Cost 2 and a half hours rail journey 6 euros equals 24 euros return
too sad we are paying so much in UK Europe wins hands down keeping cars off the road and cutting emmisions !!!!!

The easiest way to achieve net zero [or at least help towards it] is to make public transport affordable to all. I seem to remember bus fares in Cyprus being 1 euro. I just don't understand why it isn't happening...

MayBee70

The easiest way to achieve net zero [or at least help towards it] is to make public transport affordable to all. I seem to remember bus fares in Cyprus being 1 euro. I just don't understand why it isn't happening...

Successive governments efforts to increase used of public has been very half hearted because they know if drivers are forced out of their cars they loose lucrative taxation and pay out more in public transport subsidies.
It’s a lose - lose situation unless it’s a densely populated city like London where public transport can be used efficiently and car use is very expensive and impractical for many.