Is it better to be respected or liked? Why?

Caleo

CariadAgain, many people are not willing to risk losing their standing with friends ,and venture forth according to their consciences.

Ain't that the truth.......

I've been spending a bit of time today investigating further what happened re that drunk-driver killing a man and then going on to injure a woman with another episode of drunk-driving not long after that.

As far as I can work out - the editor of the local newspaper did lose their job doing that "help the culprit" stance a few months later and hence why the paper turned much more "normal" at about that time and I've not seen any more standing up for "culprits" going on in it. Them losing their job may or may not match them having championed the wrong person there. But I then checked the aftermath of all that and it didn't take them long to have a replacement job (of reasonable status) in the town and they still have quite a "network" of local people still being friendly with them!!! - ie despite their support for the drunk-driver. They and he both seem to be doing okay within the local community!

No wonder they call it the "Wild West" here and I have non-local people telling me "You should have seen what it used to be like !!!!!! - ie far worse. Things are changing to be more normal".

I do see there are people who don't take "community standing" away from people when that should happen. I do see there can be problems in enforcing moral conduct within some settings (ie there's a modern liberal Pakistani female YouTuber that posts regularly - and she's literally under threat of death from her own community and having to go and live elsewhere in England - just for supporting normal British moral standards!!!). Kudos to her for standing up for our normal moral standards - but I can see she's obviously frightened about doing so because of the threats she has had.

One does indeed have to be prepared to "stand alone" if need be sometimes - because of how few other people have fully functioning consciences. Many people do put their own personal wish for an "easy life" first....

CariadAgain, many people are not willing to risk losing their standing with friends ,and venture forth according to their consciences.

Caleo

CariadAgain

I'll go for self-respect first.

I like to think that I can "live with myself" and sleep with a clear conscience at night.

Nice to be liked too - obviously. But I'm cynically inclined to think the local "Ms Popularity" may not be the worlds most moral person. It's rare for someone to have both. My (very longstanding) best friend is someone who has a lot of integrity and believes strongly in self-respect and she is someone who is pretty well-liked too - and I try and take what leaves I can out of her book - but I understand someone of that calibre is pretty rare. She is less likely than me to be outspoken if she doesn't approve of someone's conduct - but I find it difficult to hide it if I can see someone steals or lies or pretends to have the same opinion as a nearby would-be Queen Bee type person.

Yes! Self respect matters most. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was Jesus who said that if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul ---

I believe you are right in attributing that to Jesus.

I don't count myself as a Christian any longer these days - but, having gone through 3 separate churches way back when....I am surprised just how much I remember sometimes from back then....

Other people in one's life are a "desirable extra" imo - but one can manage without them if one has to basically and, if it creates a problem = I'll go to another place outside my current small town for what I require basically - whether in person by visiting A.N. Other Location or checking things out on the Internet as to what the norm is.

M0nica

Caleo

One owes it to oneself to obey conscience before enjoying pleasure and reassurance of others.

But a lot of people lackthe courage to do that and cannot cope with the rejection that can at times go with doing the right thing.

I agree that it's about self-respect - ie as to whether one obeys conscience or no. Personally - I like to have my self-respect intact.

But I do see and agree with MOnica that a lot of people lack courage to do the right thing. That's something I personally have very much learnt since moving from my liberal modern small city pre-2020 to a small town in West Wales and gone through 2020 onwards. The combination of the two things has shown me very clearly just how many people don't think things through for themselves and either do what the Government or the Senedd says and/or what the sub-section of people they are in in this small town tells them to do.

It was not reassuring to see just how many (how few!) make up their own minds and then are open about what they've decided. I was so used to being in a city and being in the pre-2020 climate that I really had very little idea of just how many people have their minds made up for them and I've been shocked to discover it is a high proportion of people.

An episode that shocked the heck out of me happened after I moved here and the local newspaper put a huge article about a middle-aged guy here who had some booze at lunchtime and then drove and duly killed a young guy because he was drunk. Cue for that local newspaper put up a huge article urging people to support the irresponsible middle-aged drunk man that had just killed that poor young guy and upset his family/friends obviously and described the drunk as "well-respected local businessman" !!!!!! I couldnt believe my eyes that they had done that and were urging support for the wrongdoer - but it wasnt 1 April and they really honestly were! I was absolutely gobsmacked at them taking that so obviously wrong attitude and I boycotted that paper for quite some time after that - until it looked as if someone else had taken over as editor of it and it's somewhat more like a normal local newspaper these days...as I do spot the odd bit of bias in it.....but nothing so shockingly huge and extremely biased as that was.

M0nica

Oreo

Think of all the highly respected pillars of the community and how many of them turned out to be utter b*******ds.
Think of all the likeable charming rogues.
Seems to me that only self respect is worth anything.

Exactly

Respect for celebrity, rich persons, kings, physical beauty, and power is misplaced respect.

M0nica

Grantanow

M0nica

Grantanow

Tyrannical rules usually preferred to be feared but some loved.

Stalin was feared and loved: he was mourned by many Russians when he died despite being utterly ruthless and a mass murderer.

But I doubt Stalin gave a toss whether people liked him or not He probably thought those who loved him were gullible fools.

What he enjoyed was everybody being afraid of him and being able, quite literally to have the power of life or death over everyone in the country, being able to condemn one or many to death or the gulag depending on how he felt when he woke up in the morning.

I don't disagree but there are plenty of older Russians who would like to turn the clock back to the days when they had pensions and everyone had a job. I recall the department stores lGUM on Red Square where every purchase needed about 5 staff to complete it. The Yeltsin transition to a capitalist economy was traumatic for many: doctors had to work as taxi drivers and old ladies sold their possessions at the roadside.

But in the day of full 'employment' and pensios the USSR was actually in the position the UK is in now. Despite all these pensions and jobs, the Russian economy was failing. It had fallen massively behind other countries, it could not afford the pensions or employment and the transition to a capitalist economy was to try to remedy the failings of the command economy.

Largely true, MOnica. But it doesn't stop people - ignorant of political economy - wanting the old system back. In the UK one hears a resonance of wanting our country back. If the UK is failing ( which I think it is) the eventual correction is going to be traumatic.

I think respect does hold a deeper value and I would put that first over being liked.

Kate1949

Apart from my family, I couldn't care less whether anyone likes or respects me.

Me too. Some people spend way too much time worrying about what other people think of them. I think half the posts on social media are only there to make people think better of them in one way or another.

Grantanow

M0nica

Grantanow

Tyrannical rules usually preferred to be feared but some loved.

Stalin was feared and loved: he was mourned by many Russians when he died despite being utterly ruthless and a mass murderer.

But I doubt Stalin gave a toss whether people liked him or not He probably thought those who loved him were gullible fools.

What he enjoyed was everybody being afraid of him and being able, quite literally to have the power of life or death over everyone in the country, being able to condemn one or many to death or the gulag depending on how he felt when he woke up in the morning.

I don't disagree but there are plenty of older Russians who would like to turn the clock back to the days when they had pensions and everyone had a job. I recall the department stores lGUM on Red Square where every purchase needed about 5 staff to complete it. The Yeltsin transition to a capitalist economy was traumatic for many: doctors had to work as taxi drivers and old ladies sold their possessions at the roadside.

But in the day of full 'employment' and pensios the USSR was actually in the position the UK is in now. Despite all these pensions and jobs, the Russian economy was failing. It had fallen massively behind other countries, it could not afford the pensions or employment and the transition to a capitalist economy was to try to remedy the failings of the command economy.

kittylester

I have reported this to check it's real.

Why??

M0nica

Grantanow

Tyrannical rules usually preferred to be feared but some loved.

Stalin was feared and loved: he was mourned by many Russians when he died despite being utterly ruthless and a mass murderer.

But I doubt Stalin gave a toss whether people liked him or not He probably thought those who loved him were gullible fools.

What he enjoyed was everybody being afraid of him and being able, quite literally to have the power of life or death over everyone in the country, being able to condemn one or many to death or the gulag depending on how he felt when he woke up in the morning.

I don't disagree but there are plenty of older Russians who would like to turn the clock back to the days when they had pensions and everyone had a job. I recall the department stores lGUM on Red Square where every purchase needed about 5 staff to complete it. The Yeltsin transition to a capitalist economy was traumatic for many: doctors had to work as taxi drivers and old ladies sold their possessions at the roadside.

CariadAgain

I'll go for self-respect first.

I like to think that I can "live with myself" and sleep with a clear conscience at night.

Nice to be liked too - obviously. But I'm cynically inclined to think the local "Ms Popularity" may not be the worlds most moral person. It's rare for someone to have both. My (very longstanding) best friend is someone who has a lot of integrity and believes strongly in self-respect and she is someone who is pretty well-liked too - and I try and take what leaves I can out of her book - but I understand someone of that calibre is pretty rare. She is less likely than me to be outspoken if she doesn't approve of someone's conduct - but I find it difficult to hide it if I can see someone steals or lies or pretends to have the same opinion as a nearby would-be Queen Bee type person.

Yes! Self respect matters most. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was Jesus who said that if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul ---

M0nica

Caleo

One owes it to oneself to obey conscience before enjoying pleasure and reassurance of others.

But a lot of people lackthe courage to do that and cannot cope with the rejection that can at times go with doing the right thing.

Yes, I know. It sometimes takes a saint or a hero to obey conscience instead of being sociable. Also there are times and places when superficial but socially correct behaviour is best for all concerned. Please post any other thoughts you have on the matter, which is quite important and I am sure has been discussed by theologians and philosophers .

Caleo

One owes it to oneself to obey conscience before enjoying pleasure and reassurance of others.

But a lot of people lackthe courage to do that and cannot cope with the rejection that can at times go with doing the right thing.

One owes it to oneself to obey conscience before enjoying pleasure and reassurance of others.

I’m perfect so expect both 🤣

Grantanow

Tyrannical rules usually preferred to be feared but some loved.

Stalin was feared and loved: he was mourned by many Russians when he died despite being utterly ruthless and a mass murderer.

But I doubt Stalin gave a toss whether people liked him or not He probably thought those who loved him were gullible fools.

What he enjoyed was everybody being afraid of him and being able, quite literally to have the power of life or death over everyone in the country, being able to condemn one or many to death or the gulag depending on how he felt when he woke up in the morning.

Tyrannical rules usually preferred to be feared but some loved.

Stalin was feared and loved: he was mourned by many Russians when he died despite being utterly ruthless and a mass murderer.

Oreo

Think of all the highly respected pillars of the community and how many of them turned out to be utter b*******ds.
Think of all the likeable charming rogues.
Seems to me that only self respect is worth anything.

Exactly

Think of all the highly respected pillars of the community and how many of them turned out to be utter b*******ds.
Think of all the likeable charming rogues.
Seems to me that only self respect is worth anything.

Now I've come back to this, I think you have a point, valdavi. Respect is a behaviour we all have to learn before we recognise it in ourselves and in each other.

What do all the ex-teachers on Gnet say? I was HoD ML in a big secondary school. If you couldn't command respect, you couldn't do your job.
I'm sure you're probably right Romola.
My experience, however, is with much younger children who are completely different. We have to teach them to respect others, and in the main the children take the concept on board better if it comes from someone they like. If the young ones like you, (and I don't mean as a friend), you can encourage positive, courteous behaviour.

Think I'd rather be respected as it seems an endorsement of my behaviour, whereas liked depends on a lot of things outside my control.
Some of the people I like I don't neccessarily approve of "but you can't help liking them".

I'll go for self-respect first.

I like to think that I can "live with myself" and sleep with a clear conscience at night.

Nice to be liked too - obviously. But I'm cynically inclined to think the local "Ms Popularity" may not be the worlds most moral person. It's rare for someone to have both. My (very longstanding) best friend is someone who has a lot of integrity and believes strongly in self-respect and she is someone who is pretty well-liked too - and I try and take what leaves I can out of her book - but I understand someone of that calibre is pretty rare. She is less likely than me to be outspoken if she doesn't approve of someone's conduct - but I find it difficult to hide it if I can see someone steals or lies or pretends to have the same opinion as a nearby would-be Queen Bee type person.

Madmeg

I am pretty sure that I've (nearly) always been respected. I've often been told that I'm reliable. It's been said of me that I'm a person who does what she says she will and always willing to help others. The first time it was said to me I was a tad shocked, cos I didn't think I did that much for anyone at all!

My DDs both respect me, often ask my advice on random things, that is important to me. I think they like me pretty much, as do their DHs too. But I am very short on friends, other than very casual ones. My "bestie" died two years ago and I miss her like mad, but I learnt that her family regarded others as being closer to her. In my later years a couple of "friends" I had had for many years stopped including me in things. One now has dementia so no point in asking her why, the other has become very distant with me. So I sometimes wish I hadn't always done the "right" thing, but the more popular one.

It does bother me now.

I do not think doing the popular thing would necessarily give you more friends, casual acquaintances possibly, but friends?

Friends are special are the attaraction of two minds. I do not have a lot of friends, but treasure those I do, though sadly, as with you, several have died over the last few years.

I can see no joy in a friendship based on one person pretending to be something they are not.

I am pretty sure that I've (nearly) always been respected. I've often been told that I'm reliable. It's been said of me that I'm a person who does what she says she will and always willing to help others. The first time it was said to me I was a tad shocked, cos I didn't think I did that much for anyone at all!

My DDs both respect me, often ask my advice on random things, that is important to me. I think they like me pretty much, as do their DHs too. But I am very short on friends, other than very casual ones. My "bestie" died two years ago and I miss her like mad, but I learnt that her family regarded others as being closer to her. In my later years a couple of "friends" I had had for many years stopped including me in things. One now has dementia so no point in asking her why, the other has become very distant with me. So I sometimes wish I hadn't always done the "right" thing, but the more popular one.

It does bother me now.