No carol singing in school....

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

I think it's rather sad, and I suppose that includes traditional songs too.

Was there no school choir?

From a music perspective, I think it's a shame for pupils to lose such wonderfully inspiring compositions during their formative years. I'm guessing different schools have their own take on the subject, but it's the pupils loss if Christmas carols are stopped for reasons of multiculture.

For example, when we consider that "O Holy Night" was written by an atheist and composed by a devout Jew, it makes a mockery of the fools trying to eradicate such works from our children's education.

Yes, they are missing out on so much richness and culture.

Perhaps schools are just too large now; I know it's impossible to have an assembly of the whole school in many cases so they become more impersonal and lack interaction between the year groups.

Sago

We’re going to have to get used to it.

This is wokery at its best.

Why do we have to get use to it?

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Really?

Mt61

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Really?

I don't ever remember singing carols at secondary school either. In fact, I don't remember singing carols when I was a pupil. We did have a traditional daily assembly and I think we sang a Christmas hymn on the last day of the autumn term (but it was a long time ago).

I was thinking, (maybe out of the box, I know!), but if schools remove things like traditional carols, where will the next generations go on to find their future pleasures? What I mean is, that if Luckygirl's daughter is musically gifted say, she will miss out on a whole gramme of musical compositions and her experiences in that area will become reduced.

DH is a chorister, and sang in cathedrals nationwide and abroad. He still sings at 60+, and Christmas is the busiest time of year with services and concerts. If he hadn't had the opportunity to sing carols in his school Chapel, who knows he might never have had this enjoyable part of his life?

My point entirely! The singing and playing I did at school have shaped the direction of my life.

I see Starmer has been talking about the importance of music in schools - I am not quite sure what concrete plans are attached to this statement! I hope he will really try and make a difference.

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Same here. Secondary ad 6th Form in very mixed schoolsin a region that pioneeered comprehensive education.

So I think it depends very much on the kind of school you went to, or taught at. My GCs and nephews and nieces all go to very 'posh' schools and all sang carols at Christmas, but not in the 6th Form.

I so love singing, but why does it have to be carols. There is excellent and rousing, moving music, classical or not, from the UK and all over the world, that we can enjoy and share, irrespective of faith or not. As a Humanist, I strongly believe that faith is a personal matter, which those who want to can enjoy freely with each other- but should not be imposed on to others, music included. I left 2 choirs because I felt uncomfotable with the very religious lyrics.

For what it's worth, I think thousands of children have and are missing out on the joy to be had from creativity.

A recent period helping out in a school confirmed this. Every minute is accounted for and Music was shoved into a 20 minute slot. Art reduced to copying a Lowry, 7 year olds worrying about climate change.

Don't blame " wokery", blame the ex public school boys who run the show.

Frontal adverbial anybody?

There was a survey conducted a few years back in English cathedrals. It asked visitors which aspect of their visit did they most appreciate. The overwhelming answer was - you've guessed it - the music. Not the answer the cathedral clergy wanted to hear, but obviously, that's what inspires people from all walks of life and religion.

I attended a grammar school many, many moons ago where there were 600 girls. We sang hymns in assembly every day and carols at Christmas plus a Carol concert where we sang carols in French, German, Spanish and Latin. We had a high proportion of Jewish pupils who did not have to attend but usually did because they enjoyed yhe music. I sang in the school choir and still sing in choirs to this day. Music is part of education and we should all be exposed to it.

These days in my experience few young people ever get to hear anything but popular music. My exposure to various music at school from classical, traditional (including carols) and musical theory in our two music lessons a week have given me a life long interest that I would not have discovered from my home environment, I remember more of what I learned in those lessons than physics or geography!

Luckygirl3

My point entirely! The singing and playing I did at school have shaped the direction of my life.

I see Starmer has been talking about the importance of music in schools - I am not quite sure what concrete plans are attached to this statement! I hope he will really try and make a difference.

DD played in the Schools County Orchestra when she was at secondary school and I remember a friend who played in the National Youth Orchestra. He went on to become a professional musician.

Unless parents have the will and the money to pay for music lessons for their children, so many youngsters will miss out on these opportunities.

DD also belonged to a choir, but that was junior school pupils; it was started by an enthusiastic teacher at her primary school but was outside school hours and premises. They used to perform in concerts to raise money for a children's charity.

Without the will, and often unpaid volunteers, much of this will be lost.

growstuff

Mt61

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Really?

I don't ever remember singing carols at secondary school either. In fact, I don't remember singing carols when I was a pupil. We did have a traditional daily assembly and I think we sang a Christmas hymn on the last day of the autumn term (but it was a long time ago).

At my senior school we started singing carols in Assembly at the beginning of Advent (O Come , O Come, Emmanuel, was always the first) and it went on every day until the end of term. French and Latin carols were included - I still remember much of those, too.

I still love carols - to me they’re an essential part of the Christmas season.

Even now in ore school we have to adhere to other religions. I had to fight my case to put up a nativity scene in my room in case I upset other religions. We do adhere but my children also need to celebrate Christmas.

Nearly 70 years ago now we always had morning assembly and nearing Christmas presumably we sang Carols but I don’t remember. Many pupils attended church anyway so no problem with belting the hymns out!

WitZend
Thanks for the memory ( oh come oh come Emmanuel)
I was chosen to sing this solo at The Royal Albert Hall at one of the Christmas Carol services.

www.google.com/search?q=1950s+uk+%2B+london+schools+christmas+carol+service+at+the+Royal+Albert+Hall&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari&udm=50&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZ1Y6MJ25_tmWITc7uy4KIeuYzzFkfneXafNx6OMdA4MQRJc_t_TQjwHYrzlkIauOKKs0YI23S9EeDMNq-iJuNE9kbk_tqcCBI4NkmSFsStjt6Mv7hIR3wjnu8XeRZotyDwTh1QSFQh3gP-Ae1Bh5fGNTM9apc16tb7NWffCxrQg7BRkJoVh1tIIdgN-rh6_tkGJFqnA&ved=2ahUKEwj38rHo8_qOAxUEQUEAHVYUKR4Q0NsOegQILxAA&aep=10&ntc=1&mstk=AUtExfB3LZ-93yqzw8jjcc84EekzI7TAz9Wig3imYh0bqrtuyNlAYCZewWVrj4wZHOAyLou2-K_lPIZcsCNDVXxcpX0PrGrrpxtthvlaUC9_dha6zdSd_TojL_wk23qFg2l0kPhZ6CuSOr_FgcSK-Ug9Hrkw9DvWBbmYALC7vFiFcRRCvdSfEvjdMXD5VBN36Zo3qjDzxJXCPKZ9wKf0tTwQ1LuoYczRVQVN_0IDuzO0qpZNb1LxwHFVt5R5dui7axgxGobKFlqkgalERc5ijXE5N8_z3eCly0cXieKhTqQJdA4aFotXkT1gncXEPVVY03F--0AVT9VUaLkyGQ&csuir=1&mtid=ncSVaJrVJd2phbIP1-PjkQQ

petra what a fantastic experience!

Witzend

growstuff

Mt61

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Really?

I don't ever remember singing carols at secondary school either. In fact, I don't remember singing carols when I was a pupil. We did have a traditional daily assembly and I think we sang a Christmas hymn on the last day of the autumn term (but it was a long time ago).

At my senior school we started singing carols in Assembly at the beginning of Advent (O Come , O Come, Emmanuel, was always the first) and it went on every day until the end of term. French and Latin carols were included - I still remember much of those, too.

I still love carols - to me they’re an essential part of the Christmas season.

I went to the most academically selective girls' school in the area where I lived and I seriously don't remember Christmas carols ever playing a big part. I remember that we sang a hymn every day in assembly, but don't remember that we changed to anything Christmassy at the beginning of Advent.

There was a choir, although I wasn't a member. I have no idea where they performed. Music lessons were a waste of time. I remember the teacher sitting behind her piano and we had to write down what she was playing, using musical notation. We also had to listen to classical music and learnt about musicians' lives.

A number of girls had private music lessons and I know that a couple (at least) went on to become professional musicians. My grandmother and gt grandfather were professional musicians and I learnt to play the piano (badly) from my mother. I wasn't that interested - I wanted to play the guitar and be a rock star.

I think it has long been the case that secondary schools have played only a very small part in pupils' musical experience (unless parents conscientiously choose a school with a strong musical tradition).

Sago

We’re going to have to get used to it.

This is wokery at its best.

Yep! The old ways are disappearing fast. Get used to it. We have been sleepwalking. Too late to do anything about it now sadly.

Skydancer

Sago

We’re going to have to get used to it.

This is wokery at its best.

Yep! The old ways are disappearing fast. Get used to it. We have been sleepwalking. Too late to do anything about it now sadly.

Sorry, but I think the "old ways" are being viewed through tinted specs.

There are always some extremist people who object to other peoples religion just as there are extremist Christians but the vast majority of people of other religions are quite happy to sing carols and celebrate Christmas. In fact any excuse for a celebration will do.

escaped

petra what a fantastic experience!

It was terrifying 😱 My music teacher had warned me that the second I opened my mouth I’m going to freeze, but don’t look at anything or anyone just look above everyone’s head and sing.

Claremont

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Same here. Secondary ad 6th Form in very mixed schoolsin a region that pioneeered comprehensive education.

So I think it depends very much on the kind of school you went to, or taught at. My GCs and nephews and nieces all go to very 'posh' schools and all sang carols at Christmas, but not in the 6th Form.

I so love singing, but why does it have to be carols. There is excellent and rousing, moving music, classical or not, from the UK and all over the world, that we can enjoy and share, irrespective of faith or not. As a Humanist, I strongly believe that faith is a personal matter, which those who want to can enjoy freely with each other- but should not be imposed on to others, music included. I left 2 choirs because I felt uncomfotable with the very religious lyrics.

Whether you’re at all religious or not, many carols are set to beautiful music. I’m sure many people who aren’t by any means devout churchgoers, still enjoy them.,