No carol singing in school....

mass obviously

Lathyrus3

Why do people go to midnight massif they never normally go to church.

It’s all tied up with going home for Christmas I think. The need to touch base. And the need for a base and roots of some kind.
The same reason people still return to church for the markers of birth marriage and death.

The need for an anchor of some kind?

Feel a hymn coming on😬

Yes, to awaken the senses of which hearing is one of the most important in so many ways.

Lathyrus3

Why do people go to midnight massif they never normally go to church.

It’s all tied up with going home for Christmas I think. The need to touch base. And the need for a base and roots of some kind.
The same reason people still return to church for the markers of birth marriage and death.

The need for an anchor of some kind?

Feel a hymn coming on😬

Feel a hymn coming on

"Let all the world in ev'ry corner sing"
🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵

Allira

^there are little christs being born right now^

Christ means anointed one or one chosen by God.
If someone is a non-believer, then that will not be happening.

God creates many incarnations of good. We see those incarnations of good all around us if we care to seek for them.

RosieandherMaw

Claremont

Yes, agreed, Church services is where they belong, with believers, as their choice. Although our local Vicar was always very clear at Midnight Service, with the 'so lovely to see so many of you here tonight- would be even nicer to see some of you sometimes on a Sunday'.

I could hardly disagree more!
Carols are part of our history and heritage as a Christian country going back many centuries. Many are indeed not even of Christian origin but may have roots in a pre-Christian society.
So they do not belong only in Church services - but on crisp Winters evenings round the houses collecting for some well deserved charity, or lifting our spirits when we hear Adeste Fideles played by a Brass Band in a shopping centre, a welcome antidote to the “music” of the tills.
You don’t have to be a card-carrying Christian to well up at little children singing Away In A Manger, or moved by Rossetti’s poignant In the Bleak Midwinter or cheered by the jolly Boar’s Head Carol.
No, these are a fundamental part of our shared heritage and should be part of every child’s musical upbringing.
To have shared that is to understand and perhaps missing out on that lies at the heart of this grave underestimation of Christmas Carols.

Yes, I love 'In the Bleak Midwinter'. It is so true "you don't have to be a card-carrying Christian --" to feel and trust in the message of Jesus, or understand the Resurrection event.

And all else you say, Rosie and Her Maw.

Allira

Lathyrus3

Why do people go to midnight massif they never normally go to church.

It’s all tied up with going home for Christmas I think. The need to touch base. And the need for a base and roots of some kind.
The same reason people still return to church for the markers of birth marriage and death.

The need for an anchor of some kind?

Feel a hymn coming on😬

Feel a hymn coming on

"Let all the world in ev'ry corner sing"
🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵

No.

Actually it was

“Will your anchor hold in the storms of life…..”

Coming from a sea-faring family it was one of our favourites.

My DGD’s school is a Church of England school. Reception and years one and two always put on a Nativity play, whilst the older children put on an Easter play. The school has children from all ethnic backgrounds and they all take part. They have ‘Worship’ where they sing hymns and other religious songs and in RE they learn about all religions and acknowledge all religions’ feast days. I think they have got it just right. I have never heard of any complaints from parents.

Sad grandma, same at the Catholic primary my grandchildren attend

Just thinking ...... all those who don't want Christmas carols to be heard out of church, who don't want angels decorating our streets, who don't approve of nativity plays .......... then they should be the ones to work all over the Christmas period and allow others leave to celebrate.
No, I thought not!!

RosieandherMaw

Claremont

Yes, agreed, Church services is where they belong, with believers, as their choice. Although our local Vicar was always very clear at Midnight Service, with the 'so lovely to see so many of you here tonight- would be even nicer to see some of you sometimes on a Sunday'.

I could hardly disagree more!
Carols are part of our history and heritage as a Christian country going back many centuries. Many are indeed not even of Christian origin but may have roots in a pre-Christian society.
So they do not belong only in Church services - but on crisp Winters evenings round the houses collecting for some well deserved charity, or lifting our spirits when we hear Adeste Fideles played by a Brass Band in a shopping centre, a welcome antidote to the “music” of the tills.
You don’t have to be a card-carrying Christian to well up at little children singing Away In A Manger, or moved by Rossetti’s poignant In the Bleak Midwinter or cheered by the jolly Boar’s Head Carol.
No, these are a fundamental part of our shared heritage and should be part of every child’s musical upbringing.
To have shared that is to understand and perhaps missing out on that lies at the heart of this grave underestimation of Christmas Carols.

Yes, I agree actually, you are right. And of course I have partaken, my children and GCs too, and put many a penny in the box. I suppose what I meant is that it should not be an obligation in schools, on all children of all faiths and none. Anyone who sings in a choir or Carol singing group, will do so of their own vollition and with joy in their heart. Singing and music should be an essential part of primary school life, all sorts of songs, from all over the world, and carols too. Why not a mix?

As a teacher I have witnessed too many times the faiths of other children naively or voluntarily diminished or mocked, and even openly criticised in Assemble by visiting Vicars from several Christian denominations.

As a teacher I have witnessed too many times the faiths of other children naively or voluntarily diminished or mocked, and even openly criticised in Assemble by visiting Vicars from several Christian denominations
This is of course unforgivable and I can only think it belongs in rather less enlightened times than today. You’d be hard put to find any state school with this attitude even in the “white highlands” of the Home Counties. I have seen the widest possible range of religious and secular tolerance in my grandchildren’s nurseries and primary schools.
But I imagine you and I, Claremont might go back a few years to our teaching days so perhaps things were different in your part of England. It was (fortunately) never an issue here where assemblies were of a strictly secular nature. .

Lathyrus3

Allira

Lathyrus3

Why do people go to midnight massif they never normally go to church.

It’s all tied up with going home for Christmas I think. The need to touch base. And the need for a base and roots of some kind.
The same reason people still return to church for the markers of birth marriage and death.

The need for an anchor of some kind?

Feel a hymn coming on😬

Feel a hymn coming on

"Let all the world in ev'ry corner sing"
🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵

No.

Actually it was

“Will your anchor hold in the storms of life…..”

Coming from a sea-faring family it was one of our favourites.

Well, must investigate, coming also from a family of seafarers it's a new one on me!

Allira

Lathyrus3

Allira

Lathyrus3

Why do people go to midnight massif they never normally go to church.

It’s all tied up with going home for Christmas I think. The need to touch base. And the need for a base and roots of some kind.
The same reason people still return to church for the markers of birth marriage and death.

The need for an anchor of some kind?

Feel a hymn coming on😬

Feel a hymn coming on

"Let all the world in ev'ry corner sing"
🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵

No.

Actually it was

“Will your anchor hold in the storms of life…..”

Coming from a sea-faring family it was one of our favourites.

Well, must investigate, coming also from a family of seafarers it's a new one on me!

Found it, I'll play it to DH !

You might like the lighthouse keepers hymn too.

“When darkness creeps over the sea
And hides the far land from the sight……..

I wonder what the children of today will hum to themselves in their old age………

He'd never heard of it either.
Eternal Father is the Royal Naval hymn, of course.

And perhaps
Lead us, Heavenly Father, lead us
O'er the world's tempestuous sea

Lathyrus3

You might like the lighthouse keepers hymn too.

“When darkness creeps over the sea
And hides the far land from the sight……..

I wonder what the children of today will hum to themselves in their old age………

Some rap song?

I like Eternal Father especially nowadays, because it has no top notes that I can’t reach anymore……l

When I was at school in the 1950s, there was a teacher who always walked out of Prayers if Eternal Father was sung. I think she had lost her fiancé at sea. We thought it was terribly romantic. This was at senior school.

It was not a church school, but every morning we sang a hymn, and a psalm to Anglican chant. I am not at all religious but I loved every minute. It was very important to me. Of course, we sang carols as well.

petra

escaped

petra what a fantastic experience!

It was terrifying 😱 My music teacher had warned me that the second I opened my mouth I’m going to freeze, but don’t look at anything or anyone just look above everyone’s head and sing.

Wow, Petra that’s hardly a way to instil confidence! No wonder you were terrified.

ayse

My youngest GCs go to a multi cultural school where at the last count there were 74 different languages spoken. They have learned about Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and Islam. They recognise a number of religious festivals from these religions. They are also recognised as a School of Sanctuary.

At Christmas they sometimes have a Fair, make decorations and visit a local church for a carol service. They also learn secular Christmas songs. I’m not sure but I think most children do most activities as that is the ethos of the school.

The school also has a fair number of SEND children who are well integrated.

The school as you can tell is a huge mixture of different cultures and maintains its exceptional rating. My GCs are receiving education in the broadest sense of the term. It’s a very happy school in a not very affluent area of the NE, displaying all the best of human beliefs of whatever religion.

You don’t have to go to church to hear or be involved with Carolling at Christmas or at any other time.

‘ 74 different languages? How on earth does that work? How many children are there in the school?
I’d struggle to think of 74 languages.

“Eternal Father strong to save” was sung every Sunday at the Embassy church in Paris when Paw was a boy.
He said it always took him right back to those childhood days whenever he heard it.
I find it incredibly moving and find myself imagining singing it on a ship on the high seas. 🛳️⛴️🚢
Titanic, eat your heart out.

Jaxjacky

Your granddaughter said she didn’t know and hazarded a guess. I don’t recall carols at senior school in my day, juniors and infants yes.

We had a brilliant music teacher at my grammar school, with a choir that now and then made recordings with what was then the music programme, now Radio 3.
Our teacher was very keen on carols - we used to have practice sessions of new (to us) ones, after morning assembly.