Underachievement of white boys

All I can say Wyllow3, well before professionals get involved a man will seek help from friends. Also I had a bad experience with both Occupational Health and HR in this respect.

As a women if you turned to any women would sympathise, that is not the case for men.

You would not expect questions like "Can you see it from his view point" "Try to stop annoying him" "He is just being himself, accept it"

As I said I published my experiences twice on social media once clearly as a man and one gender neutral. The difference in response was very significant even though the narrative were identical.

My experiences were just over 5 years ago, unless you are saying there has been a radical shift in the last 5 years our experiences differ.

🤔

And referring to the post you are answering too.

I'd just like to take this up, JohnnyMo, and not as adversarial, but becuase you are sadly out of date on this one:

A man asking for help is more likely to face ridicule than get any useful support

Dear JohnnyMo: no, no, no.

I have both worked in, have qualifications in, I am a qualified Psychotherapist and got help from, the Mental Health and SSD sectors: I'm been acquainted with men and women at the acute end, in a MH ward, in drop in centres, and so on.

And obviously have actually met both the men who asked for and accepted help, and those who resisted it because they were brought up "strong men don't cry".

Titbits:

......The posters funded and put up by the Samaritans addressed specifically to men (ie, image of trouble man) "its good to talk" - its the tip of the iceberg

Have a look at this reference:

menwhotalk.org/campaigns/

......The widespread knowledge that far more men up to the age of (I think its 16 to 40) are far more likely to commit suicide and often violently so and that any man or woman in any healing profession or have family experiences will know this.

Nowadays, any man going to any caring agency asking for help will not be told, "man up".

Examples from my own experiences:

Setting - 2006 - a Mental Health Ward. this working class man happened to be of Afro-Carribean origin (his parents) but it could have been any man.
He told me about going to the pub and some men would do that finger to the head gesture meaning "crazy". Less likely to happen now, I think

Setting - MH drop in centre, 2009-11 - two lovely men, both told me they cried because they couldn't manage to work, the pressures on what they "ought to be" so strong. both had overcome this by....guess what.....talking and acceptance. Knowing they could do good but it didn't have to be a paid job.

Taking my own Ex to the Doctor on manic episode before the final crushing one when he was abusive and wouldn't admit "need* DID talk to me at length and to Doctors and MH nurses

I could give many more examples JohnnyMo and would if you really want in a PM. I'd like you to feel that those who feel like you, that the climate you live in of "men have to be men" is not the case, they

Do not "have" to be that way

It's all to do with a family culture and depends on what sort of family you end up in, whatever the culture. It's all to do with pride and for many men what a relief it is to open up at long last what is so oppressive to them.

BTW, many men find its easier to open up to a women, but not always at all: I'm thinking of those "mentors" who set up boxing clubs or similar and act as fatherly figures.

nanna8

Some of these posts are hurting my 👀 eyes. Too hard.

Yes!

Should someone start a thread about post formatting?
The use of ^^ ** for instance?

Some of these posts are hurting my 👀 eyes. Too hard.

Two sorts of women?

Don't we come in as many 'sorts' as men? Life is not black and white, and people come in all 'sorts'. Most of us (male and female) are just muddling through life trying to do the best we can with what we have.

I'd be surprised if most people don't see all DV as abhorrent. I don't understand the comment about people seeing those who raise male victims as misogynist. If you mean male perpetrators, then it's fair to say that some boys growing up seeing women beaten into submission might grow up to follow suit, but others defend their mothers against violent fathers, even at cost to themselves. I'm not sure what male victims of female violence have to do with misogyny, and can't imagine Iam being in support of violence of any kind.

𝗪𝘆𝗹𝗹𝗼𝘄𝟯 𝗠𝗼𝗻 𝟮𝟱-𝗔𝘂𝗴-𝟮𝟱 𝟮𝟬:𝟬𝟳:𝟯𝟵

𝗛𝗼𝘄 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗿𝘂𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹 𝗽𝗼𝗶𝗻𝘁 𝗶𝘀, 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗯𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗯𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗮𝘆 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗱𝗼 𝗶𝘁 - 𝗜'𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗲𝘅𝗮𝗺𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗗𝗮𝗱𝘀 𝘄𝗵𝗼 𝗴𝗿𝗼𝗼𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 𝗴𝗶𝗿𝗹𝘀. 𝘄𝗲 𝗰𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗳𝗮𝗰𝘁𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝗹𝗶𝗳𝗲, 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗠𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁𝗹𝘆 𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝘃𝗶𝗼𝗹𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗹𝘆 𝗿𝗮𝗽𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗴𝗶𝗿𝗹𝘀, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗰𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘁,

Raising the issue of male victim domestic abuse I have identified two sorts of women. Some who find ALL domestic abuse abhorrent and others who see anyone raising male victims as a misogynist. Doing so somehow dilutes the campaign to save women. I think 𝗜𝗮𝗺𝟲𝟰 falls into the later. I totally accept men are stronger and rape is (almost) exclusively a male crime. I don't accept the recent rise in females committing rape but that is a separate issue.

However the problem facing men are totally different to those facing women. A man asking for help is more likely to face ridicule than get any useful support. As the issue of male victims is not discussed as much of female men are often made to feel isolated, alone and even guilty. If they were a real man they would not put up with it. As you know when being abused and controlled, thinking straight isn't that easy.

The fact that a woman is killed by an abusive partner two or three times a week is widely reported and IIRC their names are read out in HoC on International Women's Day. The fact that a man is killed by an abusive partner about two to three times a month is hardly mentioned.

Finally domestic abuse is under the VAWG initiatives so the efforts to address it are seen through that prism.

𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝗻𝗼𝗻 𝗱𝗼𝘂𝗯𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗱𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 "𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗯𝗼𝘀𝘀𝗲𝘀" 𝗮𝘁 𝗵𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗮𝘁 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗸, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵 𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲.
When I was a child my mother was defiantly the boss of the house.

𝗜 𝘀𝗼 𝘄𝗲𝗹𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝗮 𝗺𝗮𝗻 𝗮𝘀 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗱𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗲𝗺𝗼𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗱𝗼𝗰𝘂𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘄𝗵𝗮𝘁𝘀 𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗲𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘄𝗲𝗹𝗹 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗮𝗽𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗰𝗶𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗴𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻...

Thank You

...𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝗺𝘆 𝗲𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗮𝘁 𝟳𝟰 - 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝗶𝗻𝘃𝗼𝗹𝘃𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗴𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗰𝘀 𝗮𝘀 𝘄𝗲𝗹𝗹 𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗳𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗲𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲𝘀 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴𝘀 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗱, 𝗮𝗻𝘆𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝘂𝗰𝗵 𝗮𝘀 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸 𝘁𝗼 𝗵𝗮𝘀.

Issue with echo-chambers and bad stories sells papers. It is hard to know what is really happening in the real world at times.

𝗕𝘂𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘃𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗹𝘆 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗼𝗽𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗵𝗼𝘄 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗮𝘀 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗱𝗲𝘀𝗰𝗿𝗶𝗯𝗲 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿𝘀𝗲𝗹𝗳, 𝗝𝗼𝗵𝗻𝗻𝘆𝗠𝗼. 𝗜𝘁 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗯𝗲 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗶𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘀𝘂𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝘁𝗼 𝗷𝗼𝗶𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂?

As I said earlier "I have identified two sorts of women", if would be good to have more of the former and less of the later.

𝗜 𝗱𝗶𝘀𝗮𝗴𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗳𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱𝗹𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗿𝘀𝗲 𝗼𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗿𝗮𝗰𝗲 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗰𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗶𝗱𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗺𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀, 𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝗲𝗻𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗻𝗼𝘄!

Then re-raise it in your next post

𝙒𝙮𝙡𝙡𝙤𝙬3 𝙈𝙤𝙣 25-𝘼𝙪𝙜-25 22:23:03

𝙄 𝙬𝙖𝙣𝙩𝙚𝙙 𝙩𝙤 𝙖𝙨𝙠 𝙅𝙤𝙣𝙣𝙮𝙈𝙤 ...𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙜𝙤𝙩 𝙤𝙪𝙩 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙨𝙞𝙩𝙪𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣, 𝙨𝙪𝙧𝙚𝙡𝙮 𝙤𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙘𝙖𝙣 𝙩𝙤𝙤? 𝙬𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙢𝙖𝙙𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙙𝙞𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙣𝙘𝙚 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙮𝙤𝙪?

I lost my job. The company was about to make the team redundant so by forcing me out before announcing the redundancy save the company a about a year's salary given my age and length of service.

𝘼𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙝𝙮 𝙞𝙨 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙛𝙖𝙘𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝘼𝙨𝙞𝙖𝙣 𝙤𝙧𝙞𝙜𝙞𝙣 𝙠𝙞𝙙𝙨 𝙞𝙣 𝙥𝙖𝙧𝙩𝙞𝙘𝙪𝙡𝙖𝙧 𝙬𝙤𝙧𝙠 𝙨𝙤 𝙝𝙖𝙧𝙙 𝙢𝙖𝙠𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙞𝙩 "𝙬𝙤𝙧𝙨𝙚" 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙬𝙝𝙞𝙩𝙚 𝙬𝙤𝙧𝙠𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙘𝙡𝙖𝙨𝙨 𝙗𝙤𝙮𝙨? 𝙎𝙪𝙧𝙚𝙡𝙮 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙮 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙧𝙤𝙡𝙚 𝙢𝙤𝙙𝙚𝙡𝙨?

The other group underachieving are Afro-Caribbean rather than Asian. That said some Asian Muslims also underachieve.

Allira

I've got lost somewhere - what is the PP?

I don’t know what you mean

A previous poster?

I've got lost somewhere - what is the PP?

I think that if someone believes that a policy is a good one (eg not having a two-tier education system) but it is taking time to get there they have to do what is right at the time. As long as some London state schools are unable to deal with gangs and private schools can protect children against them I don’t think it is hypocritical for those who can afford to to send their children to private school, even when working against their existence. I am not a particular DA fan, but she has suffered from a lot of racism and her son would have that to deal with too, as well as security issues and the possibility of press intrusion in an inner city state school. I don’t think that there was ever a policy to close all independent schools- just to withdraw tax breaks and charitable status - but even if that’s not the case it is perfectly ok to work with an existing system until a new, improved one comes onstream.

MadameFeuveral

Why is the PP a nasty piece of work?

During the 2010 Labour leadership race, Ms Abbott stated: "West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children."

She made the remark to explain her decision to send her son James to a fee-paying school after having previously criticised the private sector. BBC interviewer Andrew Neil responded: "So black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?"

Ms Abbott attacked her Labour colleague, Harriet Harman, for sending her son to a grammar school. "She [Harman] made the Labour Party look as if we do one thing and say another," Ms Abbott said.

She has described her own decision as "indefensible" and "incoherent" but said she feared her child would fall in with "black gangs" if he went to a state school.

Ms Abbott said staff at her local east London hospital who were "blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" were not suitable to be nurses because they had "never met a black person before".

She also suggested Jewish people do not face racism.

Etc.

Diane Abbott has never been a minister, so I’m not sure how this is relevant.

Abbot I her own words.

www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/07/diane-abbott-becoming-an-mp-dating-jeremy-corbyn-media-intrusion

I wanted to ask JonnyMo ...you got out of that situation, surely others can too? what made the difference for you?

And why is the fact that Asian origin kids in particular work so hard making it "worse" for white working class boys? Surely they are role models?

Why is the PP a nasty piece of work?

During the 2010 Labour leadership race, Ms Abbott stated: "West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children."

She made the remark to explain her decision to send her son James to a fee-paying school after having previously criticised the private sector. BBC interviewer Andrew Neil responded: "So black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?"

Ms Abbott attacked her Labour colleague, Harriet Harman, for sending her son to a grammar school. "She [Harman] made the Labour Party look as if we do one thing and say another," Ms Abbott said.

She has described her own decision as "indefensible" and "incoherent" but said she feared her child would fall in with "black gangs" if he went to a state school.

Ms Abbott said staff at her local east London hospital who were "blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" were not suitable to be nurses because they had "never met a black person before".

She also suggested Jewish people do not face racism.

Etc.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Galaxy

I know the please start a new thread is becoming a popular refrain, I for one always ignore that request. This is the Internet people can talk about whatever they want within guidelines.

Threads meander.

Sometimes a topic does deserve a thread of its own but that's up to the person who introduced it to decide.

Norah

I doubt colour of children causes underachievement. Perhaps it's parents who are involved, disinterested, not reading to their children.

I think it’s a cultural shift that’s seeped into all aspects of modern life.

Personal responsibility is something that’s anathema to many people now. If something is wrong, it must be someone else’s fault. Too quick to blame others instead of looking at ourselves. Some parents expect school to do absolutely everything for a child - teach them to read, write, dress themselves, eat with cutlery, tie shoelaces, use the bathroom. All this and provide wrap around care so that parents can work. From my own observations I’d say it’s a combination of selfishness and laziness - not wanting to spend the time in teaching the child life skills, and expecting others to pick up the slack. And the child suffers, because no one can replace the parent, the primary teacher.

And Galaxy is right - advice to "newbie" - we cant change the thread every time something of partiuclar interest jumps out.... generally....threads do get sort of inclusive and drift a bit, its in their nature, but this thread has stayed very much mainly "on message".

(Doodledog "I tried to address psychology in my post last night."

Yes, thank you I did notice it and it was very much to the point, I guess I just needed to "say it in my own way".)

I'm delighted that you engaged as you did, JohnnyMo. some of our experiences are - almost mirrored.

How the crucial point is, that the numbers of men abusing women and the way they do it - I'm thinking for example of Dads who groom their girls. we cannot get away from the facts of life, that Men and mostly stronger and can violently rape women and girls, and women cannot, that there is non doubt that traditionally men have been "the bosses" at home and at work, and though its changing its still there.

I so welcome a man as you have done being emotionally open and documenting whats its like to behave well and appreciate intelligent women...

...but its my experience at 74 - having been involved in gender and other politics as well as profound personal experiences that things have not changed, anything much as you think to has.

Did your abuser shout at you anything like I got?

I have it recorded, secretly, from my ex

If I were a violent man, you'd be dead, and most men would have done it by now!!!

My son has said the same things as you and many posts here of course have brought up their sons to appreciate women

But you are being vastly overoptimistic about how many men are really as you describe yourself, JohnnyMo. It would be good if you could persuade other men to join you?

I disagree with you profoundly of course on the race and culture side of matters, but enough for now!

I know the please start a new thread is becoming a popular refrain, I for one always ignore that request. This is the Internet people can talk about whatever they want within guidelines.

Remember when Diane Abbott said that white women did not know how to raise boys as they do in her culture. I think I’m right in saying she was in trouble for that racist remark. Then she sent her son to Private School.

I doubt colour of children causes underachievement. Perhaps it's parents who are involved, disinterested, not reading to their children.

𝗜𝗮𝗺𝟲𝟰 𝗠𝗼𝗻 𝟮𝟱-𝗔𝘂𝗴-𝟮𝟱 𝟭𝟲:𝟯𝟱:𝟮𝟱
𝗝𝗼𝗵𝗻𝗻𝘆𝗠𝗼, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘀𝘂𝗴𝗴𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗮𝘀 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲𝗹𝘆 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗲 𝗱𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰 𝗮𝗯𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗮𝘀 𝗺𝗲𝗻.
I clearly said a third, almost every reliable survey has that figure.

𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗯𝗲𝗿 𝗼𝗳 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗵𝗮𝘀 𝗵𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝗲𝘁𝘄𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝟭𝟮𝟰 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝟭𝟲𝟴 𝗮 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿 𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝟮𝟬𝟬𝟵.

𝗢𝗻 𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝟲𝟮% 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘀𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗮 𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗲𝗿 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿 (𝗳𝗲𝗺𝗶𝗰𝗶𝗱𝗲 𝗰𝗲𝗻𝘀𝘂𝘀)

𝗛𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝗢𝗳𝗳𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗶𝗻𝗱𝗲𝘅 𝗱𝗮𝘁𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟬 - 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟮 - 𝟭.𝟴 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝗮 𝘄𝗲𝗲𝗸, 𝗲𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗮 𝗺𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗵 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗲𝗿 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿. 𝗢𝗻 𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗮𝗻 𝗶𝘀 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗮𝗻 𝗮𝗯𝘂𝘀𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁/𝗲𝘅 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆 𝗳𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗱𝗮𝘆𝘀.

𝗜𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿 𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝟮𝟵𝟮𝟯: 𝟰𝟬 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻 𝗱𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰 𝗵𝗼𝗺𝗶𝗰𝘂𝗱𝗲𝘀, 𝟯𝟯 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗺 𝗯𝘆 𝗮 𝗳𝗲𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗲 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿 𝗼𝗿 𝗲𝘅 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿

Homicide as part of domestic abuse the ratio is about 1:5, or (30-40:150-200 per year) that does not include men who commit suicide because of abuse.

𝗢𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗮 𝘁𝗲𝗻 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗼𝗱, 𝟭𝟬𝟴 𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝘂𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁-𝗲𝘅 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀. 𝗜𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗼𝗱, 𝟴𝟰𝟬 𝘄𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗲 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀/𝗿𝘅 𝗽𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀. 𝗜𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘀𝗲 𝟭𝟬𝟴 𝗰𝗮𝘀𝗲𝘀, 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝗳𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗲𝘃𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗮𝗯𝘂𝘀𝗲 𝗶𝗻 𝟳𝟳% 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘀𝗲 𝗰𝗮𝘀𝗲𝘀

I would like to know where that figure comes from as most survey are about 30-40/year as you quoted for year to Mar 2023. Also how many of those women were murdered by an abused partner. Yes need to quote either both or neither.

𝗬𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗽𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗲𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗜’𝗺 𝘀𝘂𝗿𝗲 𝗯𝗲 𝗺𝗶𝗿𝗿𝗼𝗿𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗳𝗲𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗲 𝗽𝗼𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿𝘂𝗺

Afterwards I posted my experience on SM twice. Once clearly as a man reporting harassment by a women and once gender neutral "J said : ... D said ". The former had No supportive comments while the later had many all from women who assumed I was also a women.

If you want to discuss this further I suggest you spawn a new thread.

JohnnyMo, you suggest women are as likely to be domestic abusers as men. The number of women killed by men has hovered between 124 and 168 a year since 2009.
On average 62% of these women will have been killed by a current or former partner (femicide census)

Home Office index data March 2020 - March 2022 - 1.8 women a week, eight a month are killed by current or former partner. On average one woman is killed by an abusive current/ex partner every five days.

In the year ending March 2923: 40 men were killed in domestic homicudes, 33 of them by a female partner or ex partner

Over a ten year period, 108 men were killed by current-ex partners. In the same period, 840 women were killed by male partners/rx partners. In those 108 cases, research found evidence of abuse in 77% of those cases

Your personal experience can I’m sure be mirrored by many of the female posters on this forum