An interesting slant on the wearing of a burqa.

I think that Daphne Manners in Jewel In The Crown described Muslims as Moslems .
It's now considered an archaic spelling and also offensive , bacuse it's similar to an Arabic word meaning oppressor.

starnded

cc

I used to work in an FE college where they ran a special course to teach English as a Foreign language to Bengali women immigrants. The college provided a female driver to bring them to the college as they could not travel alone, and all female teaching staff.
Apparently their husbands learnt English at school as children or at work, and their children learnt English at school, but there was no way that they could learn themselves and could not understand their families when they spoke English amongst themselves.

There you go ! They are all the same apparently.

Oh hang on...maybe not.

dazzlingdawn.com/2025/08/17/a-silent-revolution-the-rise-of-british-bangladeshi-women-in-the-uk

I am going to argue with you again starnded I did not read cc's post as applying to every Bengali women, just those she worked with.

Presumably if some of the population of Bengali women in this country (or elsewhere) were born again feminists burning their bras while walking over men in their DMs, they would not need or want to attend the classes that cc ran. She speaks of the group she knows and does not extend her comments beyond that group.

Farmor - just clicked - you are Danish going by your name. Did you know that's Danish for "grandmother" (on the mans side I believe).

Farmor15

Slightly off topic, but when I was in Uni, a friend started wearing skirts (miniskirts in those days) all the time. This was a time when most of us were wearing jeans. She said it was because her boyfriend wanted her to wear skirts! How many women, even from Western cultures, wear clothes to please their men?

Quite! Not one specific boyfriend - though the main one would have liked me to be in Laura Ashley type clothes (slightly old-fashioned/very feminine) and I do remember two other boyfriends "having opinions" about my clothes.

Basically, I had a good figure and I knew it (had to compensate for the face not being so great....). So it was tight jeans, lowish v necklines. Not "tart" clothes - but certainly ones where my figure was pretty visible. I guess the only time I'd go back into clothes like that now - at my age - would be if someone else tried to tell me what clothes I couldnt wear. In which case - you better believe I will be back out there in tight jeans, high hemlines, v neck and bit clingy tops deliberately to make my point "My body /my choice/the norm - shut up".

Slightly off topic, but when I was in Uni, a friend started wearing skirts (miniskirts in those days) all the time. This was a time when most of us were wearing jeans. She said it was because her boyfriend wanted her to wear skirts! How many women, even from Western cultures, wear clothes to please their men?

Not sure that it does Cariad. Would respect an answer from a relevant person, and try to remember which they prefer.

Was wondering why we are actually discussing this topic at all. Cue for a check as to why that might be - and apparently there is now an "Islamophobia awareness month" and that month has been decreed to be November.

The first time that happened was only 2012. That would explain why I'd never heard of it.

I'd just had a quick check myself re "which word now" on that topic and got a variety of responses - that boiled down to "Yep....it's still used...but the more common variant now is Muslim". Errrr....can't see that it matters either way.......

I've got a good friend that might well describe herself as a "Bible believer".....well I know what she'd mean and would just mentally translate it into "Christian then....".

'Moslem' is now considered to be an outdated form of the term 'Muslim'.
I have to confess that I too, often interchange these spellings.

Yes Monica 'public nuisance'. Are you now saying that the wearing of burqas is a 'public nuisance'?

Crossstitchfan

Am I missing something? Has ‘Muslim’ now changed to ‘Moslem’? If so, why?

It has been noted 🤷‍♀️

cc

I used to work in an FE college where they ran a special course to teach English as a Foreign language to Bengali women immigrants. The college provided a female driver to bring them to the college as they could not travel alone, and all female teaching staff.
Apparently their husbands learnt English at school as children or at work, and their children learnt English at school, but there was no way that they could learn themselves and could not understand their families when they spoke English amongst themselves.

There you go ! They are all the same apparently.

Oh hang on...maybe not.

dazzlingdawn.com/2025/08/17/a-silent-revolution-the-rise-of-british-bangladeshi-women-in-the-uk

Quite M0nica - there are issues affecting millions of people in our country and any issue/ANY issue at all that affects such a small number of people has to take its place in the queue as we deal with issues that affects lots of us and have nothing whatsoever to do with any personal choice or whatever else.

The NHS? Our public transport? Our freedom of speech (emphasise that one very hard - because so many people are trying to shut us up and take away our right to freedom of speech off us).

I can spot an attack on our right to freedom of speech when I see it - I do know how to recognise it and I do know what our rights are (which may or may not match whether anyone has put pressure on our laws about it).

I used to work in an FE college where they ran a special course to teach English as a Foreign language to Bengali women immigrants. The college provided a female driver to bring them to the college as they could not travel alone, and all female teaching staff.
Apparently their husbands learnt English at school as children or at work, and their children learnt English at school, but there was no way that they could learn themselves and could not understand their families when they spoke English amongst themselves.

The other side of this discussion is how would we response if someone, male of female decided to wear no clothes at all, ouside or in?

A ma did try to do this some years ago www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29800016 and go very short shrift, even from the European Court of Human Rights, who said in their ruling

"Article 10 does not go so far as to enable individuals, even those sincerely convinced of the virtue of their own beliefs, to repeatedly impose their antisocial conduct on other, unwilling members of society and then to claim a disproportionate interference with the exercise of their freedom of expression when the state, in the performance of its duty to protect the public from public nuisances, enforces the law in respect of such deliberately repetitive antisocial conduct."

This words could also be used as a response to anyone objecting to the banning of burqas.

Maremia this possible answers your question Which principle is more important, making people wear what WE approve of, or allowing them to wear what THEY wish to wear?

As for^I do accept - and they accept - that the choice to never remove it will mean limitations on civic lives. but we cannot assume this to be the case (ie never remove it) - but its their choice^

I wonder how long for before those wearing burqas were up before the supreme court claiming that they had a right to choose to wear a burqa and have full civic rights.

We are told of around 35 million women in this country 2-3,000 wear a burqa. It is a tiny problem and there are so many more egregious traansgressions on our liberties to publicise.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

Women wear a burka for different reasons.

For religious reasons where the Koran is interpreted very conservatively and dressing modestly is taken to its extreme level.

Culturally it is worn in some parts of the world, simply because it has been worn by women for generations.

Women will make it a personal choice to wear a burka, for a number of reasons, in countries where wearing a burka is not traditional. I suspect a number of young women will adopt this form of dress in order to make a statement. I doubt that this will last.

Lastly It is worn because of familial expectation or the law as in Afghanistan

There are all sorts of religious practices by the world religions - some to my mind pretty bizarre. FGM and Male circumcision being a couple of examples. But many others.

Wearing a particular garment seems pretty innocuous against other practices imo, many of which are pretty horrendous.

I agree on the whole, Whitewave except, as far as I know, there is no requirement in the Qaran for a women to wear a burqa.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Choice is one thing but control and coercion are wrong.

I am not a follower of the Islamic faith, and have not read the Koran.

I do not know where in the Koran it talks about modest dress for both men and women.

I do know however, that every single faith on earth is open to interpretation, and indeed is interpretated in different ways by its followers, so a Christian has different interpretations, Hindus also, and Jews again have different faiths amongst every other faith.

People of each faith are perfectly entitled to interpret guidance in ways they deem fit, and looking from the outside I do find some rules oppressive and irrational. So the ban on birth control I find utterly irrational, the attitude of some Islamic and Judaism towards dogs I find peculiar, and admire that Hinduism revers them.

None of the interpretations imv are based on rationality, but I accept people feel very strongly about their different faiths.

It is a fascinating subject, and the way these believes have grown and developed and changed over the millennia is worthy of study imo.

Im at a loss to see any connection between FGM and a large flappy outergarment.

And so are most of us.
It's not a 'bad' thing. Just something to be aware of when judging other cultures, and not the same as racism.

It does

The cultural norms in France, Britain, Germany, etc are better than the cultural norms in Afghanistan, Iran, etc. If that makes me ethnocentric I can live with that.

Yes Allira, remove the face covering for practical and or legal reasons, when required.

Also, I would not forbid a woman to wear one.
with the proviso that they should not be worn in certain circumstances where facial recognition is required.

That about sums it up Maremia!

Ethnocentricity occurs when an individual assumes that their cultural norms are the only correct standard.
I would not wear a burka.
Also, I would not forbid a woman to wear one.
Also I would not agree with a woman being forced to wear one.

excuse typo.
Quran