Ban Fireworks!

Though other sources quote over £300 million, so who knows!

Crossstitchfan

Angelafeet

Bah humbug…when did we all get so fun averse

Possibly when people were injured or worse while ‘having fun’!

People have always got injured and killed while having fun, whether playing either individual or team sports, spectators have suffered also.

The best we can do is is take available precautions, make sure people understand the risks and that, the vulnerable, can protect themselves.

How may wild animals, farm animals and pets 'protect themselves'?

Maremia

How may wild animals, farm animals and pets 'protect themselves'?

Quite!

Maremia

How may wild animals, farm animals and pets 'protect themselves'?

It is up to farmers and pet owners to protect their animals. If they can't perhaps they are not fit to have a pet.

I think wild animals have far more frightening things as more normal things - predation, being eaten alive, slowly starving because of inability to eat or sickness, to get that worried about fireworks. There are birds on the grass opposite my house making inroads into any bugs or grubs they see.

M0nica

Maremia

How may wild animals, farm animals and pets 'protect themselves'?

It is up to farmers and pet owners to protect their animals. If they can't perhaps they are not fit to have a pet.

I think wild animals have far more frightening things as more normal things - predation, being eaten alive, slowly starving because of inability to eat or sickness, to get that worried about fireworks. There are birds on the grass opposite my house making inroads into any bugs or grubs they see.

Oh do tell how farmers can achieve that with random fireworks going off?

This is the reality for the use of fireworks for wild animals.
Research in the UK and globally shows that fireworks cause significant psychological distress, physical injury, and sometimes death to wildlife through noise, light, and chemical pollution.
Key Impacts on Wildlife
Panic and Stress Response: Sudden, unpredictable loud noises (up to 120-175 decibels, much higher than the human pain threshold) and bright flashes trigger panic in animals. Animals cannot acclimatise to the noise because it is so unpredictable and infrequent.
Disorientation and Flight: Birds, in particular, flee their roosts en masse, flying at unusual times (night) and higher altitudes to escape the disturbance. This can lead to:
Collisions with buildings, power lines, and other structures.
Getting lost or separated from their flocks, potentially flying far out to sea with no return.
Abandoning nests, leaving eggs or young vulnerable to predators, starvation, or hypothermia.
Energy Depletion: Fleeing and heightened stress responses cause animals to use up vital energy reserves, which is especially dangerous in winter when food is scarce. Studies on wild geese found they flew an average of 5 to 16 kilometres farther and up to 150 metres higher on New Year's Eve, requiring increased foraging time for days afterwards to recover the energy cost.
Physical Injury and Death: In their panic, mammals like deer, foxes, badgers, and hedgehogs may run into danger, such as roads or fences. Injuries can range from lacerations and sprains to broken limbs and internal trauma. There have been reports of mass deaths of starlings in other countries, and a red panda cub in Edinburgh Zoo reportedly died from stress related to nearby fireworks.
Pollution: Fireworks release heavy metals and particulate matter into the air, soil, and water, posing chemical hazards to all wildlife. Debris and unexploded components can also be ingested by animals, causing internal injuries or poisoning.

There are just some human beings who are so selfish and think their fun supersedes all other living creatures.

Totally agree icanhandthemback. It's very selfish to think that a half hour or so of fun is more important than the welfare of other people and other species.
This is humankind at it's worst.

Cats kill up to 70,000,000 songbirds a year as well as other small mammals.

Dgs have caused the extinction of several wildly fe species and cause serous environmental damage, even when on a leash, through their poo and urine and transmittable diseases.

They have also caused the death of humans and distress to many.

The arguments for banning fireworks are valid. But they are the same reasons for banning pets. If those reasons are used for banning one they can be used for banning the other.

So those who are for banning fireworks will you accept the same ban on pets?

Or do you think your fun is more important than the welfare of other people and species? That is selfish.

It would be extremely difficult to ban pets but I agree with you Lathyrus that some do cause damage of various kinds.
As far as dogs are concerned it is their owners who are at fault if they allow hurt or damage to other people or species. Cats are more difficult to control.
It would be relatively easy to ban fireworks for home use but nigh on impossible to ban pets.
Just getting rid of some harms would be a start.

Cats don't need to be out killing birds. Mine certainly aren't so I take responsibility for that. As for my dog, I clean up after it, keep my dog as free from communicable illness/parasites, etc. As far as I am able to I do not inflict my pets on other people, other animals, etc. You cannot say the same for those who won't minimise their use for noisy fireworks for which wild animals cannot be protected from. No, I don't think my fun is more important than other which is why I take steps to minimise its effects on others which is more than those wanting to keep noisy fireworks for all, at any time want.

But minimising isn’t eliminating.

I have looked this up and was particularly struck by the environmental damage that dogs do through their excretions even if you think you have cleaned it up and they are always on a leash.

A permanently indoors cat might be less of a pollutant, but it will pollute. At least it won’t kill birds. If we are talking about distress caused, one of the most distressing things I have witnessed was a mother blue tit fluttering around her four headless babies, while a cat sat by cleaning the blood off it’s fur.

But apparently this is justifiable so that humans can have the pleasure of a furry pet to stroke. And we are talking about 70 million song birds each year. So the whole argument of human selfishness holds many, many times over when it comes to the effect on wildlife.

I agree it would be had/impossible to ban pets and fairly easy to ban fireworks. But the righteous indignation shown by posters on here in terms of distress and pollution and damage to wildlife is, frankly, hypocritical if they are also pet owners, since pets are causing, in total, far more damage than fireworks.

I would be interested in your sources, Lathyrus3.

I absolutely agree with the distress caused by cats but whether we keep cats as pets or not, this will happen in nature; the cats will just be feral without control. Similarly with dogs. You could argue that working dogs provide a valuable service and would continue to exist without being pets. All animals cause environmental damage and harm in some way but are necessary and natural. Fireworks are man made and would be eliminated as they don't breed or set themselves alight!

If you we are extending the conversation to 'excretions' then shall we consider the harm that human waste does to the planet?
Or would it be simpler to agree that silent fireworks are away forward?

Humans cause the most damage to the environment but we can't ban them either.
I don't have a pet but all mentioned above cause damage to our world.
Fireworks are just a bit of fun. Pets shouldn't be thought of in the same way but most people can do without fireworks.

My source was the many websites that came up on Google when I put in Damage caused by pet cats -and then for dogs. I’m sure you’ll get the same results.

I accept there are feral animals but the figures for the Uk are around 13 million of both cats and dogs as pets. Think what an environmental difference it would make if they were limited or banned.

Not that I am suggesting a ban actually. Just a bit fed up with the hypocrisy of this must be banned for these reasons, but thus must not be banned because it something I want.

Especially when others are then called selfish!

When I say both I mean if each. 26 million😱

Lathyrus3

My source was the many websites that came up on Google when I put in Damage caused by pet cats -and then for dogs. I’m sure you’ll get the same results.

I accept there are feral animals but the figures for the Uk are around 13 million of both cats and dogs as pets. Think what an environmental difference it would make if they were limited or banned.

Not that I am suggesting a ban actually. Just a bit fed up with the hypocrisy of this must be banned for these reasons, but thus must not be banned because it something I want.

Especially when others are then called selfish!

So looking at it from the other side from the amount of pleasure the fireworks bring versus the keeping of animals, there is extensive research to show that the keeping of the latter has many health benefits. The pleasure of fireworks is short lived in comparison to the upset it does, not only to animals but to many veterans who I mentioned before my 'selfish' post. I don't think it is selfish to ask for some consistency which would alleviate this greatly but I do think it is selfish to deny it when the damage is long lasting with the most minor of benefits.
I can't help wondering about a society that bans bull horns because of the noise they make, reduces the sound of exhaust pipes even if it doesn't make any difference to pollution and yet allows the damage done by fireworks just because they are pretty. Don't get me wrong, I actually love fireworks but not at any cost.

icanhandthemback. By definition most farmers live in rural areas with low local populations, so the chances of their animals being disturbed by fireworks is much less.

As a chlld I once went to a classic 'Ladybird' family firework party. It was in a relatively remote farm cottage occupied by the traditional agricultural worker, the uncle of one of my friends. There was a huge bonfire and lots of fireworks. Whether there were any animals in the vicinity, I do not know

Yes but don’t you see whatever argument you put forward for a fireworks ban you can also apply to pets.

They cause pollution
They cause distress
They harm animals
They harm humans
They harm the environment
They cost a lot of money

You only rate pets higher because pets are important to you think they are more important full stop.

Perhaps pets do contribute to the wellbeing of many but they also cause distress and limit the lives of many. Why is the positive effects for some more important than the negative effects on others.

If positive effects are more important than why are the positive effects for some of fireworks not more important than the negative effects on others.

What is it that you think makes pet owners more special than others in having what they want?

I have lived in other countries where sensible regulations regarding fireworks . The problem with the UK is that they are allowed 365 days a year ! If you are unlucky and live near festival sites or wedding venues it can be a real torture. It’s unbearable from October until New Year. This is the problem. It is not just one or two days a year. This is why the law must be changed. This thread has gone down a ridiculous rabbit hole of discussions with cats and dogs not needing consideration . The total disregard for all the animals suffering
For some on this thread is beyond belief. The noise levels of some are like bombardments. I really hope the MPs take this on board when it is discussed and finally put some sensible restrictions in place!

I agree with you, Syracute. I hope for the same.

It’s not a rabbit hole. It’s about people being unable to apply logical thinking to a problem and expecting decisions to be made on emotional preferences🤔

I‘ve signed the petition

Dangerous dogs get PTS. Those who let off loud fireworks go unpunished.
BTw I am not advocating the death penalty for letting off loud fireworks!

Many of those waxing lyrical about protecting animals from fireworks are probably buying and eating meat brought up in conditions that makes the sufferings of animals from fireworks insignificant in the extreme (and feeding those animaks to their pets)