Well done to the Nurses who stood up for Women’s Rights

Sorry, imagine spelling 'women' wrong.

Re-reading some of this Thread, the phrase
'demanding wonen make way for them' is the one that resonates.

On X there is a video of an interview on GB news with that well known trans supporter Peter Tatchell. In it he states that transwomen who have undergone full surgical transition should be allowed into female single sex spaces. Apart from the obvious fact that having your penis inverted does not change your sex, that would seem to imply he is in favour of genital inspections, or possibly genital passports, to access single sex spaces. Seems rather extreme to me, but then he is a darling of the transgender community.............

I've seen quite a few posts on X (formerly known as twitter) from transwomen who say they have only ever used the male facilities and have never encountered any difficulty. Many have posted accompanying photos and even videos of encounters with men who haven't been the least bothered.

Mollygo

^Well, presumably Rose felt uncomfortable changing in the "Mens”^
But he didn’t care whether he made women uncomfortable by changing in the “women’s”.
Nice for a man to be able to blame the authority, for making women feel uncomfortable, instead of his own actions.

Well, presumably Rose felt uncomfortable changing in the "Mens”

The problem though is still men. If other men make Rose feel uncomfortable, then they need to be the ones having pressure put on them to accept and accommodate Rose.

Galaxy

I would say a clear indication that a man means harm is if they ignore womens boundaries and consent.

Really well put. Galaxy.
Of course ignoring women’s boundaries and consent is an indication of harm. The harm has already been done by any man TW or not, who does that.
If you found a stranger in your house when you got home, would you believe they meant no harm? That’s what these TW are doing-going into places where they’re not entitled to be.

Cossy (who has left the thread but pops in now and again) says

. I just think this whole fear of Trans Women (or men dressing as women) has been escalated due to some very tragic and unacceptable behaviour perpetrated by the minority of trans women.

That’s been said so many times on threads about TW including this one.

The fear is more to do with the fact that an increasing number of men have seen pretending to be a woman as giving them access to places and events where they can harm women, cause distress to women and take over roles and positions that should be for women, thereby depriving them of opportunities and rewards.

Also the fear, as demonstrated by the root of this thread, that male rights will be given preference over existing female right and the women who object to that will be punished.

The only way to deal with that is No males in female spaces competitions etc.
- whatever they call themselves,
- however they feel in their heads
- however they dress
- however nice or harmless or kind
That’s needful because of the behaviour of Cossy’s
minority of trans women.
It’s also another example of the “I don’t care whether I hurt women or other trans” attitude of those TW.

Cossy

* It's easy enough to avoid using pronouns - in fact when someone is there in a meeting you wouldn't use them anyway. I will not bow to the nonsensical belief that using a 'wrong' pronoun is 'literal genocide', but I am in the fortunate position of not having my livelihood depend on a willingness to do so. I will therefore put my weight behind those who are still labouring under the cosh of 'being kind'.*

I agree, but I think there’s a difference between “kindness” and “tolerance”.

If I felt uncomfortable using the “correct” or “requested” pronouns I’d simply use their first name or not anything at all. Problem solved. Hoorah for being retired !

That's pretty much exactly what I said😀

Cumbrianmale56

Anyone sick of all this poltically correct nonsense about pronouns? I'm sure most people don't worry about being he or she, but obviously the militant trans lobby and their left wing mates think it's a massive deal. Also walking past a union noticeboard that has no mention of pay campaigns and employee rights, but is full of rainbow flags and trans rights posters shows how out of touch they've become to ordinary members.

I am fairly left wing, and neither I, nor none of my 'leftie' friends support the militant trans lobby. Quite the reverse.

Please don't make this a left/right oppositional thing - it really isn't. It's about women's rights.

No worries allira. Sorry. A lot of the reasons we are in this mess is that we have accepted ideological language, so I tend to challenge it at every turn

You can't be in the wrong body

I didn't say that. I said thinking you are in the wrong body.

You can't be in the wrong body, unless you want all of us to believe in souls. Sorry but we have to challenge this language, it is so damaging for young people to be affirmed in this.

Rather like the various tales of men who thought they were Napoleon, then. Psychiatry has since diagnosed their condition as delusions of grandeur.
Or an Admiral.

Which is nothing like someone thinking they are in the wrong body, for which we have sympathy, but which is abused by an element who use the word transgender as an excuse for their abusive behaviour and thus give transgender people, living their lives without fanfare, a bad name and make others judge them unfairly.

And again so what. Womens boundaries aren't reliant on the feelings in a man's head, what clothes he chooses to wear, or what he has or hasn't had done to his body.

Cossy

Sorry again, but I meant that TW, in their head, “thinks” they are a woman internally, in their head this is what they believe.

No, you’re correct, no one can possibly know how anyone else truly feels in their own head, whoever they are.

Rather like the various tales of men who thought they were Napoleon, then. Psychiatry has since diagnosed their condition as delusions of grandeur.

Galaxy

I would say a clear indication that a man means harm is if they ignore womens boundaries and consent.

Well yes indeed, but at that point it’s sometimes too late. Ooops sorry, I will go.

I would say a clear indication that a man means harm is if they ignore womens boundaries and consent.

Sorry again, but I meant that TW, in their head, “thinks” they are a woman internally, in their head this is what they believe.

No, you’re correct, no one can possibly know how anyone else truly feels in their own head, whoever they are.

SueDonim

Cossy (who has left the thread) wrote She also believes those Trans who transition from male to female are not the root of any women’s fears, but MEN, men who present as straight men or pretend to be gay or pretend they are trans. She lived in Brighton for 4 years, 3 at University and a further year working. During this time she and her partner found more and more MEN gaining entry to gay bars and clubs in order to sexually harass women.

Are we now supposed to be able to distinguish between the transwomen who mean no harm and the ones who are using the trans mantra as cover for predatory behaviour?

I am back and just felt I had to respond!

No, we (as women) have absolutely no way of distinguish between TW who mean no harm and those who mean us harm, just as we cannot tell which straight men will harm us and which won’t.

Ilovecheese

How does one "feel female one's head?"

Cossy

OK, not answering any more, I explained myself very badly and you keep chipping away when I’m pretty sure you know what I’m trying to say.

No actually it’s a reasonable question.
How do you know how a female feels if you have never and will never be one?

One of the first things we learnt as counsellors was not to use the phrase “I know how you feel.” because you don’t.

You aren’t the other person. You haven’t lived their life. So a man definitely doesn’t know how to “feel like a woman in his head” any more than a woman knows how to feel like a man in her head.
If he really did know how to ^feel like a woman in his head” he would know that his actions could be upsetting to women.
Going ahead and carrying out those actions whilst pretending to be a woman, regardless of any distress that causes is the behaviour of the man he is.

The thing that made me ignore all the 'be kind' stuff, and women are often socialised to 'be kind', was the understanding that this is a male sexual rights movement. Just like campaigns to support prostitution,porn etc. I don't feel any need to be kind in those debates, and for me this is the same.

Exactly Mollygo, it’s not complicated unless we make it so.

If Rose had cared about others, they wouldn’t have behaved as they did. “It isn’t all about you “ is an under used comment

Cossy (who has left the thread) wrote She also believes those Trans who transition from male to female are not the root of any women’s fears, but MEN, men who present as straight men or pretend to be gay or pretend they are trans. She lived in Brighton for 4 years, 3 at University and a further year working. During this time she and her partner found more and more MEN gaining entry to gay bars and clubs in order to sexually harass women.

Are we now supposed to be able to distinguish between the transwomen who mean no harm and the ones who are using the trans mantra as cover for predatory behaviour?

Well, presumably Rose felt uncomfortable changing in the "Mens”
But he didn’t care whether he made women uncomfortable by changing in the “women’s”.
Nice for a man to be able to blame the authority, for making women feel uncomfortable, instead of his own actions.

Anyone sick of all this poltically correct nonsense about pronouns? I'm sure most people don't worry about being he or she, but obviously the militant trans lobby and their left wing mates think it's a massive deal. Also walking past a union noticeboard that has no mention of pay campaigns and employee rights, but is full of rainbow flags and trans rights posters shows how out of touch they've become to ordinary members.

Ilovecheese

How does one "feel female one's head?"

OK, not answering any more, I explained myself very badly and you keep chipping away when I’m pretty sure you know what I’m trying to say.

I’ll simply leave this debate by stating I am for women’s safety and rights, I’m not anti LGBT+ and I do have friends in this community. I don’t care what pronouns people use, or how they dress.

I don’t condone sexual predators however they choose to present themselves, I don’t condone discrimination of any group.

I’m tolerant and more than happy to compromise and never intend to insult or offend anyone, though sometimes I don’t fully explain my reasoning.

I’m coming off this thread now, as I think it’s run its course.

Thank you, I’ve learned things today from this thread (all positive)