“Shakespeare was a black woman” - now I’ve heard it all!

I forgot the one drop rule, goes much further than 25%

Allira

Well, perhaps acknowledging that he was mixed race - one quarter black heritage and three quarters white heritage might be the most honest way forward.

As a black man my husband says
If slaver owners would consider him black
If the miscegenation laws in the US would have considered him black until well into his 20s he's entitled to say he's black regardless of what white people say.

I have to say I was torn until I questioned how my GS was treated as a new born because although pretty light skinned he didn't fit the assessment of how he "should" look. I got very tiger granny.

Also the very obvious discrimination of one of my mixed race children.

If it can be used against you claim it and be proud.

Well, perhaps acknowledging that he was mixed race - one quarter black heritage and three quarters white heritage might be the most honest way forward.

Black people are often not acknowledged like Alexander Dumas.

SueDonim

Aveline

Allira I wasn't talking about any particular book or author. I know there must be long histories stories and forms of drama passed down by people of African origin. Why are these not written about and dramatised? Why the focus on inserting black people into white dramas?

As I understand it, some Black peoples didn’t have any form of written recording, so apart from passing it down orally, there would be no easy way to disseminate their culture such as the West had when writing and then printing press, especially, was invented.

In Nigeria, where I lived for five years, their own traditional culture continues as it did in the past, with various celebrations, gatherings and rituals and so on. There’s an event dedicated to Osun, the Yoruba goddess of fertility, a fishing festival, durbars with horses, the celebrate Islamic holidays, the yam festival, to give thanks for the harvest, and the Eyo festival, a drama performance with masked players. That’s just a few of their events.

They are spectacular events and it would be wonderful if they were more widely known to the world. It’s not for a white westerner to interpret them, of course. Maybe they prefer to keep their culture to themselves, though.

It's not for black people to determine our culture either. Replacing historical figures with black people does just that. It seems like they would rather project themselves onto ours, rather than showing us theirs.
Perhaps we'd like to keep our culture to ourselves. How about that??

grumppa

If I was judged on my signature I could well be taken as a semi-literate uncertain how to spell my own name. With lack of use due to the gradual disappearance of cheques, it is getting even worse.

My DD, who is an English lecturer, has an illegible signature!

My writing is getting worse and worse too.

grumppa

If I was judged on my signature I could well be taken as a semi-literate uncertain how to spell my own name. With lack of use due to the gradual disappearance of cheques, it is getting even worse.

arthritis in my right hand has made my writing even worse than it was originally and that was bad enough.

If I was judged on my signature I could well be taken as a semi-literate uncertain how to spell my own name. With lack of use due to the gradual disappearance of cheques, it is getting even worse.

Galaxy

I can't see any other works by the author. I have googled her in terms of feminism but can't find anything either. Someone else may have more luck.

She is a feminist and perhaps finds it unbearable that a white man did in fact write all those enduring plays and sonnets. In fact she does feminism a disservice.

Maremia

The Brontes for example. George Sands.

George Sands was a pseudonym, the Brontes used pseudonyms, where William Shakespeare (baptised Gulielmus Shakspere) was a real person born in Stratford-upon-Avon.

I can't see any other works by the author. I have googled her in terms of feminism but can't find anything either. Someone else may have more luck.

The Brontes for example. George Sands.

I guess it does matter to the tourist industry of Stratford. Could end it all if it wasn't Shakespeare.

When we look at our history, so many women took male pseudonyms in order to be taken seriously in literature. Using an actor to play the role would be frankly hilariously clever

This has turned out to be a most interesting Thread.

Irene Coslet, thank you Basgetti. I will look for reviews about her other books, to see if she can tell a good tale.

Sorry, got distracted and my post didn't make sense.

I am inclined to assume the hoofbeats are horses rather than zebras, on balance.
Yes, and the zebras took charge here as facts seem to have been manipulated to suit the theory to achieve the desired result.

I am inclined to assume the hoofbeats are horses rather than zebras, on balance.

It seems so and facts seem to have been manipulated to suit the theory to achieve the desired result.

Maybe - plenty of women portray other women as scheming, manipulative, gold diggers, and so on. We don't know, and it doesn't matter, IMO.

I think it's highly unlikely that such a deception could be carried on for so long though. Why would the Stratford Shakespeare be chosen if so? What was he doing if not writing plays? Drama and Literature are very competitive arts, so why wasn't he exposed by jealous rivals? I am inclined to assume the hoofbeats are horses rather than zebras, on balance.

There was a black population but the numbers were in hundreds rather than thousands.

It s debatable if Emilia Bassano was black anyway. Her mother was an Englishwoman and her father Italian from a family of Italian musicians. She was thought to be Jewish so would she, had she written the plays, have shown Jews in a poor light?

Allira

^We know where he was buried, although there are those who believe that the man lying next to Anne and Susannah in the chancel of Holy Trinity is not the playwright, but a random Stratfordian who somehow has been mistaken for a brilliant poet and playwright.^
I would very much doubt that that has any credibility at all.

Shakespeare changed his will in March 1616, just before he died and it would be very strange indeed if, with his family around him, some random stranger were buried by his local
Church in his place.

Oh, I'm not saying I believe it, Allira . I'm happy to believe that he was who the glover's son from Stratford upon Avon. I don't care, really. We are unlikely ever to know more for sure than we do now, which is fairly limited, but none of that detracts from the power of the work. If it turned out that the author was a black woman it wouldn't change the fact that the plays are remarkable.

Maremia, I have seen most of the plays performed, and have read them, too (albeit a long time ago). My children don't keep books in their homes - they read on Kindles and stream music rather than keeping copies of that either. I think a lot of young people do the same. That doesn't mean a great deal, IMO. When I go to the theatre to see Shakespeare it is always a full house, and sells out as soon as the tickets are released. Places on university courses in literature are still very competitive, and show no signs of waning in popularity.

David, do you have a source for the idea that there were very few black people in Tudor England? I am not aware of a register of colour/ethnic origin or anything similar, but would be interested to see one. There is an interesting article here, suggesting that there was a black population in Tudor England, for instance but again, relying on what was written at the time is always going to be unreliable as few people were literate.

He probably sounded like Ozzy 😁

Probably not. It's a different accent.
As is mine.

InRainbows

What a fun theory, how interesting

I do remember that we cannot even confirm the spelling of his name as of the 6 original signatures in existence, none were spelt as we do now.

I always find it amusing when his character is depicted pretty much using RP, too. He probably sounded like Ozzy 😁

What a fun theory, how interesting

I do remember that we cannot even confirm the spelling of his name as of the 6 original signatures in existence, none were spelt as we do now.

NanKate

Maremia we visit all the local productions of Shakespeare every year locally.

My parents are both scattered in the same churchyard as Shakespeare, Holy Trinity.

I lived in S-on-A till I got married.

Literally millions of people visit the town and many go to The Royal Shakespeare Theatre. 🎭

The Hollow Crown series is an excellent introduction to Shakespeare for anyone who can’t afford/is unable to go to theatres. It was a godsend for our isolating teenaged son in lockdowns.