Epstein, so sick of it everywhere.

Obama was never involved so why try to blacken his name? The others deserve all they get.

I could almost have an atom a sympathy for Peter Mandelson - but, on balance, I won't.

His carefully assembled image of suave polish and sophistication has been blasted to bits by that photo unearthed in the Epstein files of him standing around in his underpants.

Whatever he's said or done in the years before, that pic will now define his entire career.

Every actìon, every word has a consequence. For sure.

Peter Mandelson has a record of deceit and dishonesty throughout his political career, which is why I could not understand why Starmer appointed him as Ambassador to America. Following on the revelations about his dealings as Business secretary he needs to be investigated here, never mind America. As does Starmer.
Are the American papers full of the dealings of Mandelson and Andrew, or are they a smokescreen to distract from the American politicians involved? Or has nothing been revealed about them? I thought that was the whole point of the investigation, to find out who had been blackmailed and the penalties extracted. The principal players are dead, dishonoured or imprisoned; it is the financial aspects which need to be exposed.

No, the American press seems to be full of Congress demanding the Clintons appear, and of Trump’s involvement. There was a small feature about Starmer saying Andrew should appear before Congress on Saturday, nothing I have seen about Mandelson so far. There is also a plea from the victims for the website to be taken down because some victims are identifiable.

I am sick of it but long may the revealing evidence continue in order for justice to be served for the women and girls rendered powerless by powerful predatory men.
This sort of thing has been going on for way too long with powerful men who regard themselves above the law.
Bring it on I say.

Netherbyg84

Could somebody please tell me why the women who allegedly had sexual relations with the former Duke, met him of their own free will as consenting adults?
Or are we to understand they were kidnapped and brought to him by force?

Coerced
Controlled
Groomed
Ever heard of these words??

JaneJudge

I think public funding needs to be cut to the royal family
They have enough wealth
Cut it and spend it on vulnerable people
Level it out ffs

100%. Ok to support the king queen and his immediate heir I think but the rest, including Andrew and Harry, should earn their own dough.

Good to read Mandelson has resigned from the Labour Party. He was an MP during the period when Epstein paid thousands to him, on three separate occasions. Mandelson says he’s no memory of this and alleges it’s fake . So reminiscent of Andrew M Windsor’s response when that photograph of him with 17 year old Virginia G first was publicised

Dare we hope Mandelson will leave the House of Lords?

Andrew and Harry are not working royals

LOUISA1523

Netherbyg84

Could somebody please tell me why the women who allegedly had sexual relations with the former Duke, met him of their own free will as consenting adults?
Or are we to understand they were kidnapped and brought to him by force?

Coerced
Controlled
Groomed
Ever heard of these words??

Exactly. And 'consent' obtained through any of these methods is not meaningful consent.

Iam64

Good to read Mandelson has resigned from the Labour Party. He was an MP during the period when Epstein paid thousands to him, on three separate occasions. Mandelson says he’s no memory of this and alleges it’s fake . So reminiscent of Andrew M Windsor’s response when that photograph of him with 17 year old Virginia G first was publicised

Dare we hope Mandelson will leave the House of Lords?

Why didn’t Starmer tell Mandelson to go as soon as this stuff came to light instead of waiting for him to resign? ? He’s keen enough to want Andrew to do things, but members of his own party ?

ViceVersa

Burying your head in the sand doesn't make things go away.

But it keeps me well.

Mollygo

Iam64

Good to read Mandelson has resigned from the Labour Party. He was an MP during the period when Epstein paid thousands to him, on three separate occasions. Mandelson says he’s no memory of this and alleges it’s fake . So reminiscent of Andrew M Windsor’s response when that photograph of him with 17 year old Virginia G first was publicised

Dare we hope Mandelson will leave the House of Lords?

Why didn’t Starmer tell Mandelson to go as soon as this stuff came to light instead of waiting for him to resign? ? He’s keen enough to want Andrew to do things, but members of his own party ?

I think because, as a variation on the well known ‘Old Boys Network’, Starmer’s Chief of Staff, McSweeny, who is strongly suspected of pulling Starmer’s strings, used to work for Mandelson and is very close to him. Apparently it was McSweeny who persuaded Starmer he’d be good for the ambassador job. This is how things work at this level…

MaizieD

Galaxy

He s resigned from the labour party.

He needs to jack in his peerage, too.

Yes!
I did wonder when he was appointed Ambassador to the US, why on earth Starmer would pick someone who already had an unsavoury aura and was nicknamed ‘The Prince of Darkness’.

IMO Starmer’s judgement has been questionable, to say the least.

Mandelson is easily dispensed with, however. It’s a much more serious issue for politics in the USA, I’ve been keeping up with the information coming out related to both Clinton and Trump, not to mention the other high profile figures involved. Not everything within the documents has yet been discovered, the media keep updating the updates on what has been found. There’s still a very long way to go with this.

It's getting somewhat boring and displaces far more important issues, e.g., cost of living, undoing Brexit, etc.

Grantanow

It's getting somewhat boring and displaces far more important issues, e.g., cost of living, undoing Brexit, etc.

There are important issues I agree but this is equally important. And the more media coverage this gets the more these powerful men are put under the spotlight instead of feeling they can just get away with it.

Mandelson should be stripped of his peerage immediately and removed from the House of Lords. Starmer has called for Andrew to appear before American authorities; why not Mandelson? He was responsible for his appointment as Ambassador, despite his colleagues voicing grave concerns.

Starmer has no right to interfere as far as Andrew's concerned IMO, and he's done himself no favours by saying what he did while seemingly ignoring Mandelson's involvement and giving him time to resign from the Labour party, rather than kicking him out.

Mandelson is not important enough to the USA to be required to attend Congress one would assume, as his presence hasn’t been requested. I believe from what I’ve read that Andrew was at the Epstein residence at the same time as other high profile figures, so they want more information. That’s putting two and two together, so I could be wrong, but that’s what I think it is.

Doodledog

*AmberGran*, whilst I agree that there is no logical reason why those with money should be more 'moral' than those without, I can't equate going on a cruise with sex abuse.

Unless you are putting up a case for nobody having more than they need, in which case where do you draw the line? A cup of lentils a day, with electricity on 2 days a week? Would a camping holiday be allowed, if a cruise is immoral? Deciding what others 'need' is always problematic at best.

It should go without saying that I am not remotely condoning anything that happened on Epstein's island - all efforts should be made to prosecute everyone who abused trafficked women and girls, however powerful they may be, but I wonder if there is something about 'alpha men' that predisposes them to treat people as dispensable? Realistically, someone who 'rises to the top' has either been born into power, so has probably grown up surrounded by people who are paid to do as they're told, or they have pushed others out of the way to get there. Business is based on maximising profit, not caring for people, and politics can be ruthless, too. Again, I'm not excusing it, but there has to be a reason why so many powerful men agreed to go. Maybe a first visit might have been 'innocent' (as in they didn't know what would happen), but why would they keep going back? Many people despise what they see as 'weakness' in others, but being 'strong' usually means being willing to hurt others, one way or another, and turning a blind eye when others do it.

We don't know the full story, obviously. Were there several bases on the island, so that guests staying in some of them were cover for ones in the 'central' one? Did different parties have different MOs? Who knows, but the drip feeding of papers is not helping either the victims or any men who might have been there and kept out of the abuse.

It seems clear that there was a blackmail agenda, hence the numerous photos. I am very interested to know what has happened (or not happened) as a result of that. I doubt we'll find out the full story in any of our lifetimes.

The reason that the very wealthy should have extra moral responsibility is that they can and do influence others to an extent that poor , obscure, and disadvantaged people do not have.

This is why Andrew is slighted by the rest of the Royal family: because the Royal family rightly perceive their role is to be examples to the common people., which Andrew was obviously not.The late queen was an expert at so doing, and the present king and his heirs are good at it too.

caleo the royal family has been expert had hiding their vile past …..it’s just that Andrew is even dimmer than the rest.Remember .their “mentor” was well known for using boys for decades.
Rumours were rife about Phil the Greek,Charles was friends with Savile for over 20 years and Bishop Ball so it’s not surprising that this has come to light.Social media can show stuff that was well hidden before
What is surprising is that Joe Public still believes these are good people and are happy to treat them like Demi gods and support the quite disgusting privileged lifestyle we have paid for for centuries
The same royal supporters are vocal about cutting benefits and pensions ….you couldn,t make it up

Many of the victims were underage girls. I agree there is too much news about this horrible man and I think Andrew has so let his late mother down. In all her reign she never put a foot wrong. I’m glad she is not around to see how her son has turned out. I hope that all involved get their just desserts

Netherbyg84

Could somebody please tell me why the women who allegedly had sexual relations with the former Duke, met him of their own free will as consenting adults?
Or are we to understand they were kidnapped and brought to him by force?

These girls were groomed from the age of around 14. They were vulnerable, from dysfunctional backgrounds and ruthlessly exploited by rich and power men. They were often literally picked up off the streets by Ghislaine Maxwell. But if that doesn't trouble you then I'll tell you what bloody well should. The fact that a member of the Royal Family which is a Government Department funded through our taxes was paying for prostitutes young enough to be his daughters. He is also the brother to our Head of State and held a position as special Trade Envoy liaising with other governments all over the world yet procuring prostitutes through Epstein, a highly dubious foreigner with a criminal record. Ever heard of the Profumo case?

Gran22boys

Netherbyg84

Could somebody please tell me why the women who allegedly had sexual relations with the former Duke, met him of their own free will as consenting adults?
Or are we to understand they were kidnapped and brought to him by force?

This is exactly what I’m wondering.

I truly feel this is a very sad thought process in this day and age!