From the Palace to Government…

Change comes from dealing with groups that form natural groups.

The young girls, some very young ,groomed and abused by, mainly Asian groups, in towns and cities in the north of England and further south in places, were linked by the modus operandi of the groups grooming and abusing them, and their ethnic homogeniety.

Apart from being based in the US, and not the UK, the modus operandi and optics of the men involved in the grooming and abuse of girls was entirely different to that seen in other groups. The methods needed to detect the crime, collect evidence, to prosecute those involved is very different in both cases.

Maremia

I think winterwhite, that for as long as there are grooming issues, we will continue to show concern.
We are able to multitask.
Concentrating a Thread on seemingly one issue, does not mean GNs are ignoring other aspects.

Indeed. Grooming is quite a concern.

I multitask well, I can be concerned about multiple things at once. I do wonder, whilst reading, if I should just brush the dog's hair.

An enjoyable never ending task.

Maremia

I think winterwhite, that for as long as there are grooming issues, we will continue to show concern.
We are able to multitask.
Concentrating a Thread on seemingly one issue, does not mean GNs are ignoring other aspects.

Quite so Maremia.

That those in authority apparently chose to play-down the grooming of those vulnerable girls for, allegedly, fear of being deemed racist, does not mean that the rest of us have shied away from talking about the issue.

Men - whether they be among the rich and powerful, or from countries whose culture treats women as second-class citizens, or are part of the Manosphere who've swallowed the 'red-pill' (the Tate's of this world) - or just plain old misogynists - have been using and abusing girls and women for aeons.

All are abhorrent, all of them need calling-out, held to account and prosecuted. The fallibility and inadequacy of those entrusted with the power and authority to deal with this wretched crime against the female sex (and in some instances against young boys and vulnerable men) is a problem; and I believe there might be any number of us on here who, in their youth, have experienced the casual misogyny of men who harass women in the street and other public places verbally and even physically - and who know how difficult it can be sometimes to be taken seriously; who've been told that a wolf-whistle is a compliment, or who were laughed at for objecting to 'Page-3' which was "just a bit of fun"... or, in my case, "had got it all wrong, he was just being friendly" when I complained about an office superior who insisted on putting his arm round me unnecessarily. It's all part and parcel of the same thing - men with a sense of entitlement over women, and those girls/women not being listened to when they articulate their concerns.

There shouldn't be a competition about which male-demographic gets more attention or media coverage.

I think winterwhite, that for as long as there are grooming issues, we will continue to show concern.
We are able to multitask.
Concentrating a Thread on seemingly one issue, does not mean GNs are ignoring other aspects.

winterwhite

Dickens I am not being sympathetic to anyone. I just think that revelations about grooming and trafficking from several years have preoccupied us for long enough.
I have pondered on another thread why this issue has aroused so much more outrage than the grooming of young girls in Rochdale and other towns that is still going on.

Does the difference lie in that while the Rochdale rapists indicated general disdain for the welfare of women and girls, the members of the Epstein gang indicates that the general disdain for women and girls is international with political implications.

winterwhite

Dickens I am not being sympathetic to anyone. I just think that revelations about grooming and trafficking from several years have preoccupied us for long enough.
I have pondered on another thread why this issue has aroused so much more outrage than the grooming of young girls in Rochdale and other towns that is still going on.

I think that when high-ranking individuals are implicated in a scandal like the Epstein scandal - especially those in positions of power, it is inevitable the we will be 'pre-occupied' for a long period of time because this took place over many years which means that the information, the details, we get are leaked out slowly; and those whose names appear in documents and photographs - who may or may not be guilty of any wrongdoing, are busily defending themselves... so it drags on. Epstein is not an open and shut case is it. So much has been redacted that we don't know, and may never know, the full extent of what, exactly, Epstein and Maxwell got up to - and with whom.

And I don't think there is more outrage over this than over the grooming-gangs in Rochdale and other towns and cities.

If you are judging by media coverage - well bear in mind that papers, either in print or online, will headline whatever it is that they think will garner the most interest - because circulation figures matter to them, they are there to make a profit, and if Epstein commands high volume readership, then that's what will be covered. The media group bigwigs aren't going to sit in meetings debating ethics.

It might give AMW something to fill his time, cooking and cleaning and doing all his food shopping.

And ironing. Ex-RN personnel are good at ironing, everything ship-shape and Bristol-fashion.

Stop him having too much introspection.

Dickens I am not being sympathetic to anyone. I just think that revelations about grooming and trafficking from several years have preoccupied us for long enough.
I have pondered on another thread why this issue has aroused so much more outrage than the grooming of young girls in Rochdale and other towns that is still going on.

AMW was in the navy for some years, and certainly in his Dartmouth days would have had to do everything for himself.

My experience of people in the navy, regardless of rank, is that they are more than capable of looking after themselves in any situation they find themselves.

Coming from an army family i would say that the same applies to service people in all the services.

It might give AMW something to fill his time, cooking and cleaning and doing all his food shopping.

eazebee Epstein isn't just an American problem! A lot of woman were trafficked to the UK and other countries..

winterwhite

Apart from Mandelson having leaked sensitive information to Epstein, which is an issue on its own, I think that the country has more important things to worry about and the media are mu+h to blame. The nation is being encouraged to treat the issue as a soap opera., and enjoying kicking people who are already down. Unedifying in itself. The new guilt-by-association is a dangerous weapon.

Do we really want or need to knoow the çontents of thousands more emails? Or pay for them all to be trawled through?

I think that Starmer should get on with governing the country and stop talking about Epstein. He does have some success stories to tell and his comms teams should ensure that they are heard.

The nation is being encouraged to treat the issue as a soap opera., and enjoying kicking people who are already down.

... is it? Some might see it as a soap-opera, but others feel that it's time the rich and powerful who have abused their positions without giving a hoot about their country or other people who are less fortunate than themselves - were held to account.

And if any of these individuals are spiralling downward, it's because of the choices they made through their arrogance, sense of entitlement, and their corrupt nature. I find it difficult to be sympathetic.

I suppose, like Trump, you think we should 'move on'? There are more important matters... that's the go-to mantra for those who are wriggling under the spotlight when they are being held to account.

There are other important matters - governments have the ability to focus on more than one issue at a time. And national security is a very important matter - especially if it has been compromised.

Easybee my first sentence was intended to make it clear that I was not including Mandelson’s breaches of security in my comments about the nation having more important things to worry about.

Starmer appointed a man who was known to be corrupt through his suspect previous business dealings, against serious advice. That is of great importance, the influence Peter Mandelson had over a Prime Minister, and the recent revelation that he was leaking confidential information while serving as a cabinet minister to Gordon Brown.

You clearly have no concern for national security. The nation is not being encouraged to treat these matters as a soap opera; they are a soap opera because so incredible, as in so difficult to believe. They have brought the Prime Minister into disrepute, and even worse,the public are sniggering at him openly, indicating he has lost all authority.
If you don't think that is important, many do.

Apart from Mandelson having leaked sensitive information to Epstein, which is an issue on its own, I think that the country has more important things to worry about and the media are mu+h to blame. The nation is being encouraged to treat the issue as a soap opera., and enjoying kicking people who are already down. Unedifying in itself. The new guilt-by-association is a dangerous weapon.

Do we really want or need to knoow the çontents of thousands more emails? Or pay for them all to be trawled through?

I think that Starmer should get on with governing the country and stop talking about Epstein. He does have some success stories to tell and his comms teams should ensure that they are heard.

Yes, sadly you’re probably right. Someone will be happy to take his blood money. Though from all reports he’s a complete arse to work for so they’ll need to don very thick skin.

Basgetti

He’ll have to learn quick sharp, then.

Why?
He won’t be kept short of money for staff.

He’ll have to learn quick sharp, then.

Basgetti

Maremia

I think he is about to learn how to look after himself as it would appear that the Staff do not wish to work for him.

Good for them.

There will be plenty of others willing to work there if the price is right.😉

Norah

Oreo

Basgetti

B and Q always have openings …..

Apart from joking there’s nothing that someone in Andrew’s position could do in the world of work.

I'd think he could be a gardner on his brother's estate. He could wash windows, keep the vehicles clean, wash laundry, change sheets.

I'd imagine he'd be a capable putzfrau.

Hardly! I don’t suppose he’s ever done anything round the house or garden in his life.

There have a.ways been many dodgy characters in politics its not new, some have never been caught, many have, Mandelson is just the latest.
Its likely Starmer will survive for now but he badly needs some successes to balance his failures.

We had friends in the navy where he was considered arrogant and unwilling to listen to advice or takeit, unless compelled to. I say this with no disrespect to his courage shown in the Falklands War.

Ditto, M0nica. I have heard the same.
Unlike his older brother who, I heard, was always popular because he was not arrogant and made sure he chatted to his shipmates and listened to them.

I think there is a real difference between being averagely intelligent and being stupid.

I always thinks stupid means someone who is culpably ignorant, who should, as they say, 'know better'. I have a mildly learning disabled friend, I would never describe her as stupid, because within her limitations she is thoughtful and listens and acts on advice given her by those she trusts.

This is what AMN has never done. We had friends in the navy where he was considered arrogant and unwilling to listen to advice or takeit, unless compelled to. I say this with no disrespect to his courage shown in the Falklands War.

This has been his problem all along, not that he is not as bright as his siblings, but that he ispig headed and unwilling to take advice from anyone.

Even after that car crash of an interview with Emily Maitlis, he cannot see how he is his own worst enemy and should be prepared to take advice and be apologetic. let alone continuing to stand by everything he said in that interview, when it has been proven without doubt that it was not true.

Unfortunately he chose a wife who may be brighter but is still eually, if not more, stupid

M0nica

Politics has always has a strong corrupt element - and a strong group of idealistic men and women who sacrifice much to serve the country.

iIts just like real life. We all know people who are completely honest and those who are crooks - and those who seem one and turn out the other.

Some time ago I discovered that someone I went out with for six or nine months when I was in my early 20s, about 5 years later received a prison sentence for fraud and seems to have continued to walk on the shady side. Does that make me guilty or suspicious by association?

I completely agree.

Also, sadly, we hear far far more about nasty corrupt people than we do about honest good people.

Note to Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor:

I can recommend a microfibre duster on a stick, a rechargeable vacuum cleaner and best to clean the shower room daily. Ready meals are much improved now, frozen veg available.
Ironed clothes and bedding are not compulsory, even for ex-RN personnel, especially if no-one is going to see you.

Basgetti

Maremia

I think he is about to learn how to look after himself as it would appear that the Staff do not wish to work for him.

Good for them.

Yep.....a hollow laugh was heard in my house when I heard that one - ie staff refusing to work for him. Serve him right. Not that that is going to make a scrap of difference to his high level of self-regard. He will still think he's wonderful....can do no wrong.

Would love to see him trying to run a (bigger than most of us have) home on his own. Catchphrase for the day "Send him down to Sainsburys" (ie to do his own darn shopping). Would take him down a peg or two to have to stand in a supermarket queue with the rest of us.

I think he honestly doesnt seem to know what his own level of intelligence is(nt). I'd use my phrase "HE thinks he's wonderful" about him. Where many of us wouldnt give him the time of day now.