What are older people's lives worth?

Once we start valuing life by age, that will be a dark day indeed.
Remember First They Came by Pastor Martin Niemöller.

I feel it's unfair to blame older people for what the younger endured during Covid.
I'm not blaming older people by the way, just the attitude of quite a few.

Emeraldforest

I think we should stop all the divisive stuff now! I want to thank all the people of all ages who kept the shops open and the mail delivered,everyone who looked after us.As a 70+ cleaner I worked through all after the first lockdown when the office reopened for those who struggled to work from home. Many have not gone back,full time at least. Many prefer to work from home,it's an accepted practice now.
I don't think we should ever lockdown again but I think the government and advisors were in new,frightening territory...I think a lot of people have very short memories,the death toll was terrifying!
I wore a face covering for 2 years, and still do if I have a cold. The least I can do.
Time to move on and stop blaming the old people, we couldn't help when we were born.

I do agree with you emerald forest, both about divisive stuff and the terrifying death toll at the time. I also see that no-one would support another lockdown, so I guess the death toll in any future pandemic would be much higher. I think the answer to my question is not much. Perhaps this is just something I have to accept getting older.

Whatever happened during COVID emanated from people between 30 - 50. They consulted with no one but each other.

Why blame us for what they did? Older people did not ask to be protected, in fact they weren't, we were herded like cattle to the slaughter in hospitals and care homes, isolated from our families to die alone and be buried without family or memory.

But the dead are silent, they cannot protest, the young are living can so they protest.

Basgetti

I disagree, OP. Children and young adults were affected dreadfully and the repercussions are still being felt.
Younger, hitherto healthy people died, too.
I find this thread somewhat distasteful. It wasn’t a competition.

Surely the article was what made it a competition? It wasn't just the old people who died, those who were on the cusp of dementia were isolated so the disease progressed rapidly and those that survived are living in a horrible twilight world. Diagnosis was hindered so the drugs which slow things down were not administered.
Every age group suffered in some way and as a society we should be supporting each other regardless of age.

The only worth I feel allocated to old people now are if you look after grandchildren for free and the potential inheritance you may leave. Otherwise we are using NHS too much, using government funds for pensions and living in accommodation young people would like to have.

I suffered nothing more than frustration that I couldn’t go shopping.
I wasn’t allowed to look after my grandchildren while their parents worked full-time so they were at home alone all day every day. They did no school work, were totally isolated and their mental health was badly affected, probably for life.
They would be completely justified in blaming older people for their mistaken decisions.

The youngest children suffered the most. Little tots need to see faces and facial expressions.

Young pupils missed out on the vital early days in Primary School. The social interaction as well as an education.

I feel very lucky that we , as a family,were fortunate enough to emerge from Covid intact. I did, however, feel sickened by BJs attitude to the elderly.

We matter too.

watermeadow

I suffered nothing more than frustration that I couldn’t go shopping.
I wasn’t allowed to look after my grandchildren while their parents worked full-time so they were at home alone all day every day. They did no school work, were totally isolated and their mental health was badly affected, probably for life.
They would be completely justified in blaming older people for their mistaken decisions.

They would be justified for blaming their parent's generation for their mistaken choices, but not old people. We were as much victims as they were.

My take on the choice between young and old is you save the young first, it that means sacrificing the old so be it.
I would give my place up in a lifeboat for a child, is there seriously anyone on GN that would take the place of child of young woman ?.

I hope never have to make the choice

Neither the older nor babies/children/teenagers made the Covid restriction/Lockdown decisions the government did. That is where "accountability" lies. Lockdown restrictions do not particular feature in the article.

The article's author puts forward his opinion there is an unfair generational divide and that older/baby boomer generation has "eaten all the pies". That is they are a generation that have enjoyed much greater benefits and rewards, e.g. cheaper travel, cheaper house prices for a lower proportion of salary, easier to access mortgages, free university education etc- than those the same age today. He states the older generation takes up a larger proportion of state spending- pensions, care etc and this will ge worse with an increasing ageing populations. He addresses Brexit stating that the result was skewered by the older germination voting to leave thereby denying the younger generation of free movement across the EU and other benefits in their interests.

The author ends by saying the older generation/ baby boomers therefore have a debt, if you like, to settle as a result. However I don't think it helps anyone pitting one gernartion against another. Those older people who have accumulated pottery wealth by buying their home no doubt will be passing it onto to their children who will benefit in turn. Not all of course own their property but that has always been the case....

LemonJam The article's author puts forward his opinion there is an unfair generational divide and that older/baby boomer generation has "eaten all the pies". That is they are a generation that have enjoyed much greater benefits and rewards, e.g. cheaper travel, cheaper house prices for a lower proportion of salary, easier to access mortgages, free university education etc- than those the same age today. He states the older generation takes up a larger proportion of state spending- pensions, care etc and this will ge worse with an increasing ageing populations

What irritates me every time when this issue arises is that there is an implication that baby boomers are/were selfish/thoughtless/greedy etc for accepting what was on offer as they lived their younger lives. I mean does anyone really think that the present younger generations would have said/be saying "oh no thanks thats too selfish of me to accept" if offered free uni education; more easily acessed mortgages with better proportion to salary etc?

Yes my generation was lucky! And I personally think that I paid into the system over the years to pay for a society we want not to necessarily benefit in my old age. Means testing of many areas with sensible realistic living wage thresholds are needed. But what is not needed is pitting one generation against another

Beautifully put. My granddaughters education was so badly affected

I’d be interested to see what the author’s attitude will be when he becomes part of the older generation taking up a larger proportion of state spending, pensions, care etc.
Maybe he’ll turn down any such help or support, or even see himself off to avoid being part of the burden he sees the older generation as being.

Mollygo

I’d be interested to see what the author’s attitude will be when he becomes part of the older generation taking up a larger proportion of state spending, pensions, care etc.
Maybe he’ll turn down any such help or support, or even see himself off to avoid being part of the burden he sees the older generation as being.

Yes that would be interesting

AnotherBirdLady

www.theguardian.com/inequality/2026/mar/08/did-baby-boomers-eat-all-pies-john-lanchester-truth-generation-gap?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I read this article at the weekend and found it very interesting. However, it was a bit chilling near the end when he says that older people should thank the young for their sacrifices during Covid. No-one disputes that younger people were adversely affected by lockdowns and school closures, but older people actually died, often decades before their time. Are the lives of older people worth so little they should be grateful that younger people didn't kill more of them by spreading the virus around? I sometimes have nightmares thinking about what the next pandemic might be like. Perhaps no-one over 60 will be admitted to hospital, and their bodies will be collected each day, after dying quietly at home, so that younger people can have their needs for "socialisation and education" fulfilled. This may be far-fetched but it is surely the logical conclusion for all this dreadful ageism.

I'm sorry but that's not true. The older people who died were, in the main, already chronically ill, sometimes with hidden conditions. There's a very strong argument that many of these people would have died in the next couple of years anyway. So we sacrificed so much to give already ill people another couple of years of life. Doesn't seem right to many of us...

My Grandchildren did not suffer in lockdown
The eldest did his GCSE and done well. The middle one was 7 and was not affected. He went into school for a time, his Mum is a journalist and the teacher told her it was on the list of key workers. My other Grandchild was two and had brothers from her Mothers previous relationships and she had no negative effects. People turning it into a competition are wrong.
I was 62/ 63 when lockdown started.
I remember going into work. It was manic, all people I would have seen face to face, I dealt with over the phone. I remember trying to find a 10 minute gap to eat a sandwich and rush down a tea.

John Lanchester and his like seem to forget, that for most people the firsts 60 years of their life is a time when they have very little need of medical services and pay in to the NHS far more than they draw out.

When we are ill in old age, we then use up all the money that was unused in earlier years.

We sacrificed so much

Many people sacrificed nothing.

Should I believe that this poster is willing to give up any care that will prolong their life or that of their family members.

The older people who died were, in the main, already chronically ill, sometimes with hidden conditions. There's a very strong argument that many of these people would have died in the next couple of years anyway. So we sacrificed so much to give already ill people another couple of years of life. Doesn't seem right to many of us

Please don't bother next time. I'd hate to think you sacrificed doing what you want to give me an extra couple of years of life. I'd rather take my chances than have more lockdowns.

Unfortunately, a significant number of deaths from Covid were in the 45-64 age group anyway, higher than those in the 65-74 age group but slightly lower than over 75s.

I too worked during COVID, in an office, coordinating volunteers who helped those self isolating. I will be forever grateful to the doctors, nurses, healthcare workers, key workers of all kinds, and of all ages, who risked, and in some cases, gave their lives for the rest of us. But I will not thank a whole generation on behalf of my own. It is divisive, ageist and wrong.

I agree with keeping quiet, as I know my own GC and many other young people suffered the consequences of the lockdown's, and some still are. At least as oldies we could better understand the reasons behind it. That's not to say older people didn't suffer because we know they did. It's just that with a bit more maturity we could cope a bit better with it.

MartavTaurus

The thing is though, that most adults had options during covid to re set their lives, to wfh, to shield if they were old or vulnerable. Children had no such choices, they were deprived of friendships, and deprived of the best education.
There were older people on here being ghastly almost saying that children should be locked away for being germ spreaders and because teenagers' body odour stank and contained germy microbes. I'll never forget the divisive attitude towards our youngest generation.

My teenage GS and his girlfriend are visiting. I just said that people feel they missed so much with schools closed. They both laughed and said everyone they knew loved it. No school, loads of time on their computers.

I think there is a danger if we keep telling the young how awful it was and how they suffered and are suffering they will believe us

Basgetti

I disagree, OP. Children and young adults were affected dreadfully and the repercussions are still being felt.
Younger, hitherto healthy people died, too.
I find this thread somewhat distasteful. It wasn’t a competition.

All there is to say about it, really,

Maybe some teenagers enjoyed the online freedom. But many of the under 10's missed out and suffered very much. They felt lonely and isolated which caused anxious and depressive feelings.