Four more horses die in the name of ‘sport’

Ooops I hadn't refreshed the page before posting.

So, a Poster upthread, not rude at all, suggested we should 'educate' ourselves by visiting a specific racecourse, but, I assume, not the 'seedy' one also mentioned upthread.
But, perhaps there is an easier way to find out if horse racing is in fact the ethical paradise, as has been suggested.
Why not ask Google?

'Is there still a doping problem in the UK horse racing industry?'

What will the answer be?

No - you haven’t read the post correctly. I suggested educating yourselves by visiting the Annual Open Day at Lambourn where many racehorse yards are open and information and views given - not a racecourse! There is no hope of educating some….

while incidents still occur—frequently caused by inadequate withdrawal times for medications—large-scale, systemic doping scandals are considered rare in British professional racing compared to international standards

Apologies, I posted hastily whilst doing something else. If racing was banned overnight, which of course won’t happen because it’s worth far too much to the economy, but if it were, then I would expect the industry to take responsibility for the horses it has brought into existence.

Thousands of horses are killed every year in racing - how can this be allowed to continue. It seems as if an annual cull is happening anyway.

I don’t think racing will die out or be phased out gradually all by itself, there would have to be legislation to force it and again, there’s no will for this to happen.

Perhaps the best we can hope for (and I don’t think this is likely either) would be changes to the breeding, training and keeping of racehorses so their welfare can be put first. Far fewer foals bred, breeding stock to be restricted so that only sound horses are used, less inbreeding, no horse to go into training before the age of four, species appropriate husbandry to include full turnout and less stabling, a more natural diet, adaptations to courses including fences and surfaces to reduce risks, and lots more. I’m so tired of the often quoted ‘the horses live like kings’ when what they are crying out for is to live like horses.

So I’m sorry if you think I’m sidestepping Lathyrus but I don’t think the issue only comes down to your one question. It’s a question that shuts down discussion or criticism of the industry and business carries on as usual.

nightowl

Apologies, I posted hastily whilst doing something else. If racing was banned overnight, which of course won’t happen because it’s worth far too much to the economy, but if it were, then I would expect the industry to take responsibility for the horses it has brought into existence.

Thousands of horses are killed every year in racing - how can this be allowed to continue. It seems as if an annual cull is happening anyway.

I don’t think racing will die out or be phased out gradually all by itself, there would have to be legislation to force it and again, there’s no will for this to happen.

Perhaps the best we can hope for (and I don’t think this is likely either) would be changes to the breeding, training and keeping of racehorses so their welfare can be put first. Far fewer foals bred, breeding stock to be restricted so that only sound horses are used, less inbreeding, no horse to go into training before the age of four, species appropriate husbandry to include full turnout and less stabling, a more natural diet, adaptations to courses including fences and surfaces to reduce risks, and lots more. I’m so tired of the often quoted ‘the horses live like kings’ when what they are crying out for is to live like horses.

So I’m sorry if you think I’m sidestepping Lathyrus but I don’t think the issue only comes down to your one question. It’s a question that shuts down discussion or criticism of the industry and business carries on as usual.

Your figures are incorrect nightowl 1,000’s of horses are not killed each year in racing

2024 there were 200-215 deaths at race meetings, (usually broken legs or heart attacks) and an additional 570+ off course deaths.

"Hundreds of racehorses who are not good enough are slaughtered every week in the UK."
Actually that's just not true, hundreds are not slaughtered on a weekly basis. There's 14k in training and if a hundred were slaughtered each week that would by over 5K a year. There has been a decline in the numbers of foals born each year with 4.015 being born in 2025. This is due to drop to just over 3,000 in 2026 because the cost of breeding a foal is now higher than the value of a live foal.

"What I would like to see is massive changes to the industry with far fewer horses bred and greater traceability and accountability within the industry"
Every foal has to be registered with Weatherby's within 30 days of birth and there is very high traceability as no horse can be slaughtered, sold or raced without being registered and having a passport. It is illegal for any horse not to be passported, the passport is kept on the premises of where the horse is stabled and it also travels with the horse. When it receives treatment from the vet, eg receives a flu injection as required by racing authorities if it is to race, it is put in the passport.
There have been numerous changes to races over the past few years.In National Hunt racing, fences have been lowered, the distance from the start to the first fence is calculated so that horses don't travel too fast, the number of starters has been changed. Horses are vetted before and after races, the racing whip design is significantly different so that it makes a noise instead of inflicting pain and the number of times the jockey can use it and how they can use it ie on the hindquarters not the flank etc is now regulated and an offending jockey will get a ban.
I don't support flat racing and would never go to a meeting. IMO there are serious issues around the age that horses start their training ie before they have skeletal maturity, I think this is a real issue for the fusing of bones in the vertebral column and although flat race jockeys are very light I don't think horses should carry a rider until it is stronger. I would like to see horses entering racing later in life and would certainly campaign for that rather than a complete ban.

It isn’t meant to shut down reasoned, educated discussion.

It’s origin was in my frustration at the unrealistic visions of many posters that a ban would result in racehorses turned out and running free in green fields, to live out their natural lives.

Which in such circumstances would be short, disease ridden, malnourished and - although none of the visionaries will admit it- cruel.

None of them responded to posts explaining that with an admission of “I got that wrong. Clearly I know nothing about caring for a horse.”

A couple of posters even said they were proud to be ignorant.

So if that reality wasn’t possible I thought I would challenge them with another. That hasn’t worked either.

People prefer their fantasies.

Winning horses are dope tested. There are also spot checks on horses pre and post race. Sometimes a horse will fail the test because it had been given prescription medicine too close to a race. There is one famous case in which a horse failed a test because it had eaten a Mars bar. And another horse was found to produce something performance enhancing. If a horse runs unexpectedly badly in a race it will be tested and there is an enquiry. If racing did end I suppose thoroughbreds would still be bred but far more indiscriminately. The thoroughbred as it is now have evolved over centuries of careful breeding. Many flat horses tend to come from Ireland but the best NH horses often come from France these days. They are much more careful about the mares they breed from and they aren’t necessarily full thoroughbreds. Ever since people started riding horses their owners have raced them against each other; competition is in our blood I guess.i accept that the problem in racing is due to running and jumping at speed. But I have to say I love the sight of a thoroughbred jumping a fence; I love seeing them walking round a parade ring and the smell of hoof oil. When famous horses are taken back to the racetrack for people to see them they get so excited and the years fall away from them. I used to watch racing on tv with my dad when I was a child. When he died it rekindled my love for the sport; I felt he was still with me in some way. When my marriage ended I used to racing on my own, but never felt alone; the racetrack is the only place where I’ve ever felt I belonged. I totally understand why people feel it should be banned. However, what I don’t like is misinformation about the sport, often perpetrated by the very newspapers that get extra customers by offering free bets and doing sweepstakes. They’ll do one for the National and then really hope that something bad happens so they can run a story about it. A lot of trainers these days are women who run quite small yards with a lot of success. There are more and more women jockeys, who I feel ride the horses sympathetically. Equestrian sport is the only one in which men and women compete equally ( except in France where women jockeys get a weight allowance). One trainer years ago was nerve blocking his horses and running them. When it was discovered he was banned for life and completely ostracised. It wouldn’t happen now, thankfully.

MayBee70 may I correct you one small point, please. To race in the UK a horse must be a full TB so French horses like Kauto Star and Galopin de Champs are full TB, although I agree that there are some super French horses bred for other disciplines that are not TBs eg Selle Francais

If racing was banned overnight, which of course won’t happen because it’s worth far too much to the economy, but if it were, then I would expect the industry to take responsibility for the horses it has brought into existence.

Another incomplete answer. Do you think owners would be compelled by law to maintain horses for the following 10 years or more no matter the financial cost? Surely you can admit that ‘taking responsibility’ would mean the vast majority of horses would be killed? And maybe that is an acceptable price for you to get racing banned.

My little TB lived to 28 and was pts becaue he had strangulated colic probably due to internal growths, the dark bay eventer lived to 20 and was found dead in the field, possibly a heart attack. I don't think some posters have any idea of how long domestic horses can live, how much care they need as they get older and how much the vet bills can stack up. The little tb had cushings in later life and my monthly vet bill was pretty big even when he was completely retired but IMO worth every penny as he was much loved. He may have been "little" for a tb but he was a huge personality. It makes me so cross when people suggest owners see their horses as a "commodity" it is just not true.

Rosie do you expect me to have all the answers to what should happen if racing was banned? A little unfair I think. I’m not involved in racing, I don’t support it and I think those that work in it are the ones who should be made to sort it out. I’ve been involved with horses all my life but you don’t need to be an expert to see the faults in the racing industry. And yes I do think owners and trainers and especially breeders should take responsibility for the horses they produce or buy.

As for asking me whether I think a mass cull is an acceptable price to pay for banning racing, read my posts again. To clarify: I believe there is a mass cull going on every day, every year, every decade. It will continue as long as racing continues. What’s the difference? None of it is right.

nightowl

Rosie do you expect me to have all the answers to what should happen if racing was banned? A little unfair I think. I’m not involved in racing, I don’t support it and I think those that work in it are the ones who should be made to sort it out. I’ve been involved with horses all my life but you don’t need to be an expert to see the faults in the racing industry. And yes I do think owners and trainers and especially breeders should take responsibility for the horses they produce or buy.

As for asking me whether I think a mass cull is an acceptable price to pay for banning racing, read my posts again. To clarify: I believe there is a mass cull going on every day, every year, every decade. It will continue as long as racing continues. What’s the difference? None of it is right.

To clarify: I believe there is a mass cull going on every day, every year, every decade. It will continue as long as racing continues.

It has just been pointed out by posters more knowledgeable than you and me that that is simply not true.

It is an emotive subject but using untruths or half-truths to try to prove a point will not help those who campaign to ban racing.

Nightowl there isn't a mass cull going on every day, every year, every decade. The evidence doesn't support that. However, there are lots of obese horses and ponies going down with laminitis which is excruciatingly painful, lots of horses and ponies being ridden that are lame and in constant pain, lots of horses and ponies being ridden in poorly fitting tack, lots of ponies and horses being ridden who are in pain each and every day because their owners are ignorant or negligent and IMO these deserve our concern far more than race horses who are well cared for, ridden by jockeys who know what they are doing and ridden in the correct tack for the job.

foxie48

MayBee70 may I correct you one small point, please. To race in the UK a horse must be a full TB so French horses like Kauto Star and Galopin de Champs are full TB, although I agree that there are some super French horses bred for other disciplines that are not TBs eg Selle Francais

“The Fellow (1985–2008) was not a full Thoroughbred; he was a top-class French AQPS (Autre Que Pur-Sang - "Other Than Thoroughbred") racehorse who won the 1994 Cheltenham Gold Cup. While he was a French-bred chaser, his pedigree was a mix of Thoroughbred and high-quality French riding horse blood, typical of the AQPS breed”.
Wikipedia
Wikipedia

“A significant number of French brood mares are not Thoroughbreds. In France, particularly in the realm of jump racing (National Hunt) and sport horse breeding, non-Thoroughbred mares are frequently used, often producing highly successful offspring.
The Owner Breeder
The Owner Breeder
+1
Key details regarding non-Thoroughbred French brood mares include:
AQPS (Autre Que Pur-Sang): This translates to "Other Than Thoroughbred." The AQPS studbook (created in 2005) is crucial in French jumps breeding,, allowing mares that are not pure Thoroughbreds to compete and breed. These mares often have higher percentages of Anglo-Arab or Selle Français blood, which provides toughness and jumping ability.
Selle Français (SF): While primarily known as a top-level show jumping breed, Selle Français mares are also used to produce top-level steeplechase horses, particularly when crossed with Thoroughbred or Anglo-Arabian stallions.
Anglo-Arabians: Often used in crossbreeding programs for eventing and jump racing, this breed brings stamina and toughness to the French breeding industry.
French Trotters (Trotteur Français): While mainly used for harness racing, these mares are sometimes crossed for speed and stamina in other disciplines.
www.horsemagazine.com
www.horsemagazine.com
+4
These non-Thoroughbred mares are often crossed with Thoroughbred stallions to produce high-class, competitive jumping horses in France.
The Owner Breeder
The Owner Breeder
A thoroughbred in all but name? - The Owner Breeder
1 Nov 2012 — Distinct breed, or a myth? What makes an AQPS horse different from a thoroughbred is a question that produces numerous answers. He...

The Owner Breeder

French Eventing: Part Two – The Anglo-Arab - The Horse Magazine
7 Jan 2017 — French Eventing: Part Two – The Anglo-Arab * Christopher Hector looks at a breed under threat. It is something of a tragedy, that ...

www.horsemagazine.com

Here's what I think French jumps breeders are getting right
28 Dec 2023 — - There is no real difference in mare quality. All three nations increasingly rely on mares who have been tested on the racecourse...”

Racing Post

No thanks Taunton, I already have my Easter holidays booked.
Much more straightforward to ask someone/thing who has no 'skin in the game'.
What would the organisers at your suggested event reply to a question 'Is doping still an issue in horse racing?'
Seriously??? You think that's a viable way to do such research?

So, I asked Google, and expected something like,
'There used to be a problem, but now it's under control'
instead, sadly, Google said 'Yes'
There followed a long list of the painkillers and other drugs still being illegally administered to some racehorses.

In fact there was more.
'The British Horseracing Authority has EXPANDED its anti doping programme to combat gene therapy doping'
First I've heard of that concept.

Another comment,
'Ongoing vigilance is essential'
And so we are back to, is horse racing 'benign' or barbaric'?

Thanks MayBee70 you're correct, Flat racing requires a horse to be full TB, NH racing they will accept horses that technically are not full TB 31/32 is acceptable for certain races. They can't be entered in the main stud book though. I'm never to old to learn!

Maremia in my opinion horse racing is not barbaric.

The racing authorities are always looking at ways to make racing safer for horses and jockeys.

Unfortunately there will always be a small percentage who think they can get away with bucking the rules.

Totally agree GG13

What I love about GN is there's always an opportunity to learn something new. MayBee70 I think Sprinter Sacre is one of the most beautiful horses ever, I saw him at Cheltenham Festival years ago and won a bit of money too. I had no idea he was a Selle Francais, I just assumed he was a full TB. He's still alive and living in Gloucestershire with the Henderson's. He had a knock in the field and was operated on to have some bone chips removed earlier this year but to date he's had 10 years of retirement from racing. fwiw an equine arthroscopy costs several thousands of pounds and tbh most owners would struggle to find that sort of money to repair an old retired horse nor have the money to continue to insure! The only options would be to leave the horse in pain or PTS.

Maremia

No thanks Taunton, I already have my Easter holidays booked.
Much more straightforward to ask someone/thing who has no 'skin in the game'.
What would the organisers at your suggested event reply to a question 'Is doping still an issue in horse racing?'
Seriously??? You think that's a viable way to do such research?

So, I asked Google, and expected something like,
'There used to be a problem, but now it's under control'
instead, sadly, Google said 'Yes'
There followed a long list of the painkillers and other drugs still being illegally administered to some racehorses.

In fact there was more.
'The British Horseracing Authority has EXPANDED its anti doping programme to combat gene therapy doping'
First I've heard of that concept.

Another comment,
'Ongoing vigilance is essential'
And so we are back to, is horse racing 'benign' or barbaric'?

I’m surprised at what you say you found.

I googled exactly that and got very different answers.🤔

I also googled ‘Statistics for doping racehorses Britain 2025” and found no reported cases.

I then tried worldwide statistics and confirmed cases were reported at 0.34 %, the majority being in Mexico.

I’d be grateful if you could give me a link to the site that says it is still a problem. As well as the one that says thousands of racehorses are slaughtered annually, as you have stated already.

Could they be the same site?

You didn’t mention that the action on gene therapy is a pre-emptive measure to make sure it never happens in British horse acing, not a reaction to something that is happening.

Lathyrus3 I would also be interested in that link.

I posted the British Racing figures on death of race horses, and they do not coincide with Maremia’s numbers she posted…

foxie48

Thanks MayBee70 you're correct, Flat racing requires a horse to be full TB, NH racing they will accept horses that technically are not full TB 31/32 is acceptable for certain races. They can't be entered in the main stud book though. I'm never to old to learn!

It’s the mares that are partly non thoroughbred. The stallions all go back to the three founding stallions. They say use stallion for speed and mares for stamina. There’s a dosage system which I will never understand that works out what distance a horse would be capable of running. I think in France they only use mares that retire sound whereas here they’ll use one that has retired unsound ( I could be wrong about that because I’m going by an article I read years ago that I now can’t find). Some horse breeders came to it from breeding cattle and understanding pedigrees. Mind you the lady that bred Dream Alliance ( who won the Welsh National and only died recently at a ripe old age) on an allotment got her knowledge from breeding racing pigeons. My friend has a horse that came third in one of the Cheltenham races whose great grand sire Sunday Silence is one of my favourite American horses and I love the way that I can see him and remember back to his great grandsires racing days. I hope he doesn’t have his temperament though as Sunday Silence would eat people for breakfast.

Lathyrus3

“I do believe that culling is the most ethical policy”

To be honest Caleb, I’m not quite sure what you’re saying ie

The current culling of retired racehorses is the most ethical

or

the mass cull consequent upon a ban is the most ethical.

If it’s the latter I salute you for your ability to look facts in the face and accept the consequences of an action.

It’s quite rare.👏👏

"the mass cull consequent upon a ban is the most ethical."
That is what I meant, Lathyrus.

There are times when humans need to choose the least bad option.