Four more horses die in the name of ‘sport’

MaizieD

^Horses and donkeys are trained to work until they drop---men profit from their suffering.^

Not something that could be generally applied to the UK; not even to horse racing. There might be some individual cases but over all horses are very well treated. And when did you last see a working donkey in the UK?

Yes, Maisie, for your information, a docile well -trained horse will not rebel. There is a word for ponies that decide to do their own thing.

Regarding the use of donkeys, Not all of us are as insular as you appear to be.

* nappy

BlueBelle

So another four horses have been killed, put down, lost their lives in the name of sport
I know we ve talked about this on here before, but will it ever change
When will this barbaric practice stop, it’s not sport it’s just horrible.

BlueBelle, it isn’t ‘barbaric’ at all, such hyperbole!

Horse racing is the ‘Sport of Kings’ according to Charles ll
who founded Newmarket and improved the bloodstock.

Perhaps if you write to King Charles III with your views he
may take them on board; he has made a start by selling off
14 of the Queen’s horses, including two winners, one of them his, winding down the breeding programme (did you know this).
John Warren always remarked that Charles’s interest was at
arm’s length, that Camilla was the racing fan.

See, now I have the bit between my teeth !

You go girl!🤭

How does your information, SORES, show that horse racing isn't barbaric?
You have given us some interesting detail, thanks, but you haven't clinched the argument.

How does the information show that it is barbaric?

barbaric behaviour that is extremely cruel, violent, uncivilized, or primitive

Oreo

You go girl!🤭

lol

Maremia

How does your information, SORES, show that horse racing isn't barbaric?
You have given us some interesting detail, thanks, but you haven't clinched the argument.

did you read my post of last evening? describing horses running ? they have a natural competitiveness too,
strive to run faster rather than allow another to overtake
or even come alongside

how is running under controlled conditions any different,
let alone ‘barbaric’
the horses know what is required of them despite carrying
a possibly alien rider, ie not their usual Groom.
They’re off! and most horses will give their all.
It’s exciting.
Horses pick up on this of course, they are not Dobbins.
They are bred for speed, that is their raison d’etre, they are fit, healthy, magnificent thoroughbred horses having a day out.

Do you not recall showboating horses, like Redrum, how pleased with himself in the Winner’s Enclosure, head held high in the ‘Look at me how clever I am” pose only achieved through running and winning.

He was a standout, but winners know they are winners, they love it.

Perhaps you can describe how and why horse racing is barbaric and show workings out in a reasoned argument, as I have.

There is a potential for injury in horse racing of course, not heeding the rules, an unfit mount, as in show jumping, polo, carriage driving, eventing, cross country, endurance trails,
or for anyone who has ridden in France on a Sunday morning, the trigger happy Chasse, sudden appearance of wild boar crossing the chemin, protruding tree roots, a horse that needs reminding to pick his feet up lest he stumble and fall, miles from home, who would know? with thrill comes danger.

None of these potentially mutually enjoyable equestrian endeavours are barbaric.

This is before we even start on the Rodeo!

Yes, you have demonstrated that horses love to win.
Some horses are well looked after, for example, by Posters on this Thread.
But,
there is a lot of money to be laid out and to win in horse racing.
Not every horse that races is fit to be doing that.
Can you deny that unfit horses are forced to perform?
Are drugs, although illegal, still used to over-enhance ability, so that money won't be lost?
What for example caused the death of the four mentioned in the OP?
Just because rodeos are worse than our horse racing, does not automatically remove any blame for how horses may be treated here.
🐎

Here we go again…. Another thread on horse racing started by someone totally ignorant about it- why don’t you pay a visit to the Lambourn (Valley of the Racehorse) Open Day on Easter Friday when you can visit the yards, see the horses and even speak to the trainers to actually EDUCATE yourself? Just a thought…

Maremia

Yes, you have demonstrated that horses love to win.
Some horses are well looked after, for example, by Posters on this Thread.
But,
there is a lot of money to be laid out and to win in horse racing.
Not every horse that races is fit to be doing that.
Can you deny that unfit horses are forced to perform?
Are drugs, although illegal, still used to over-enhance ability, so that money won't be lost?
What for example caused the death of the four mentioned in the OP?
Just because rodeos are worse than our horse racing, does not automatically remove any blame for how horses may be treated here.
🐎

Horses get checked by the course vet before races, they also have regular blood tests, to test for drugs.

Doping a horse is illegal.

Anyone who knows horses and is around a horse can tell if they are off , and there would be no point paying entry fees, transport and all the other costs associated with a race entry if there was not a chance of winning or being placed.

GrannyGravy13

Maremia

Yes, you have demonstrated that horses love to win.
Some horses are well looked after, for example, by Posters on this Thread.
But,
there is a lot of money to be laid out and to win in horse racing.
Not every horse that races is fit to be doing that.
Can you deny that unfit horses are forced to perform?
Are drugs, although illegal, still used to over-enhance ability, so that money won't be lost?
What for example caused the death of the four mentioned in the OP?
Just because rodeos are worse than our horse racing, does not automatically remove any blame for how horses may be treated here.
🐎

Horses get checked by the course vet before races, they also have regular blood tests, to test for drugs.

Doping a horse is illegal.

Anyone who knows horses and is around a horse can tell if they are off , and there would be no point paying entry fees, transport and all the other costs associated with a race entry if there was not a chance of winning or being placed.

Horses get checked by the course vet before races, they also have regular blood tests, to test for drugs.

Doping a horse is illegal.

But the misinformation persists.

Yes, I know horse doping is illegal, in fact I believe I said so in my post. Perhaps you didn't get a chance to read it properly? I know, busy people. It happens.
Are you saying that you know, with absolute certainty, that no racehorse in the UK in recent times, in any stable, has ever been given illegal drugs?

The four horses that died. One died in a steeplechase. Broke a leg running on the flat I think ( need to double check). One fell at the last hurdle. I’m concerned about that. It was a race for conditional jockeys. Big field , very competitive. Think it needs looking at future wise. Envoi Allen collapsed and died after the race. He had been checked before the race and immediately afterwards. Walking back, ears pricked he just collapsed. Obviously a heart attack. There will be an autopsy. He hadn’t ran for a while as he didn’t like muddy ground. He’d won a big race in Ireland beating a horse who won an even bigger race next time out so he was in the form of his life. He was going into retirement straight after the race. Fourth horse also fell at a hurdle. They are constantly changing the hurdles. Now painted white at the top because horses see white better. Padded so they won’t hurt their legs if they brush through them. Winning horses are drug tested but there are also spot checks on horses all the time. There isn’t really money to be made out of winning races given how much training fees cost. Unless you win a Derby or a Grand National. Some people I know bought a horse for £7,000 and he’s won over £200,000 but he’s the exception to the rule. He’s 9 now but will have a home for life with his trainer. He’s trains them on the beach and they paddle in the sea every day. He finds good homes for his horses. A lot of people have horses in the borders for the riding out ceremonies so there are homes for them. This is one of his retirees complaining that I didn’t have a carrot for her. She now wins prizes at the horse of the year show. I think most of the money is in breeding and pinhooking etc.

It’s one of those endless discussions about rights n wrongs, The bond between horses and humans is as old as time. I’ve already said I can’t watch, wouldn’t bet on Cheltenham or National.
I also referred to my favourite riding school horse, a 16.2 retired race horse. Put him on the gallop/canter route and his heart sang - he had to be first and he was.

I trust the posters here eg grannygravy to give a fair evaluation of the industry. I stayed in Middleham recently, home of a huge racing stable. Watching the stunning horses leave their stables for a stroll then the gallops was a joy

Thank you for your very rude post Taunton it says a lot about you ! I don’t need to educate myself (but thanks for your nasty comments) I can see for myself the amount of over breeding and over expectations of a horse or horses, whipped, broken legs and over worked hearts and of the end results.
If you’re happy with that that’s your business I’m not happy with it nor dog racing, bull fighting or fox hunting.
I have absolutely no experience with horses but I do know cruelty when I see it, whether is a human or an animal suffering

I've been on the gallops many times and the horses love it. They are creatures who are designed to conserve energy but to react really quickly with a huge explosion of power and speed. It's an incredible feeling. There are things that I would change with regard to racing but interestingly no one on this post who is against racing knows enough to make a coherent argument (and I'm not going to do it for you). If you really care about horse welfare fgs educate yourself so you can make a decent argument because saying horse racing is cruel and should be banned will only stack up if you know what you are talking about and frankly, you don't. There are still changes that should be made and I am hopeful that in time they will but they will come about because knowledgeable people offer solutions as well as objections.

I am loth to do this, I am 'with the horse owners in most that has been said, being one myself, but I would disagree with SORES about horses loving to race. Horses are herd animals and they are essentially prey animals. Living in the wild if one shouts 'DANGER!' they all try to escape it by running away from it as fast as they can (fast galloping isn't at all 'unnatural'). They may appear to be racing each other but there's a perfectly good reason for that, the slowest one is the one that gets eaten by the lions..

Racing is exploiting this natural instinct for self preservation. Note that if a jockey is unseated his horse continues to gallop with the herd because that is where it feels safe.

That doesn't mean that asking a horse to gallop is cruel, they'll do it off their own bat when they're not being ridden, but I'm always a bit wary of anthromorphising animal behaviour.

Iam64

It’s one of those endless discussions about rights n wrongs, The bond between horses and humans is as old as time. I’ve already said I can’t watch, wouldn’t bet on Cheltenham or National.
I also referred to my favourite riding school horse, a 16.2 retired race horse. Put him on the gallop/canter route and his heart sang - he had to be first and he was.

I trust the posters here eg grannygravy to give a fair evaluation of the industry. I stayed in Middleham recently, home of a huge racing stable. Watching the stunning horses leave their stables for a stroll then the gallops was a joy

My favourite place in the world. We used to stay opposite the castle. Loved the sound of the horses walking on the cobbles through the village from Mickey Hammond’s ( he tried racing skewbalds but they weren’t very good; there were two, Angrove Rum Baba and Fat Rascal who was named after a tea cake) yard. We used to walk the dog up to the gallops each evening and a curlew would be trying to lure us away from his nest. First time I’d ever seen a curlew. There was a stable we used to visit ( it’s next to The Forbidden Corner) where there were ducks wandering into the stables. There was a horse there that Victoria Pembleton (sp) used to ride when she stopped cycling. My retirement present from work was a trip to Newmarket and I found it to be a bit seedy and run down and rather disappointing so we went to Middleham next time. What a difference. There was an old chap that used to take people on tours of the stables. All the money went to horse charities and in his spare time he rescued owls. What history. Dante is buried there. And there were little stables hidden away where famous horses had been stabled. The B&B where we used to stay went very boutique’s and we can’t afford to stay there now. The Richard III pub had two resident Patterdales; Tilly and Ted, her son. The grass grows on limestone and it’s particularly good for rearing horses on. I’d love to go back.

Actually * Maizie* I think you are spot on, racing is about what horses do naturally and you are correct, the fastest one doesn't get eaten!

Thanks for the update MayBee70, on the four recent tragedies. And to the Posters who have described their experiences with equines of all sort, I enjoyed reading those too.
But racing horses are not companion animals. They are a mega investment, and not everyone in the horsey world is as kind and caring as you are.
And that's where the potential cruelty can exist.
If horses are dying on the track, then something is going wrong.

foxie48

Actually * Maizie* I think you are spot on, racing is about what horses do naturally and you are correct, the fastest one doesn't get eaten!

Yes. MaizieD is spot on

I agree with others, that horses shouldn’t be dying in races

Iam64

foxie48

Actually * Maizie* I think you are spot on, racing is about what horses do naturally and you are correct, the fastest one doesn't get eaten!

Yes. MaizieD is spot on

I agree with others, that horses shouldn’t be dying in races

I agree that horses shouldn’t be dying whilst racing. The racing governing body is constantly looking at ways to improve safety for horses and jockeys, at will continue to do so.

I will go further and say horses and/or ponies shouldn’t be dying in fields (caught on barbed wire fences, colic, broken legs etc) or left in stables under exercised and overfed by inexperienced owners.

Unfortunately horses do die, as do dogs, cats and us humans, we cannot sanitise the world as much as we would like to.