The Grand National

ViceVersa

I'm with you on that, BlueBelle. I've been around horses all my life - I've been to racing yards and I've ridden ex racehorses. But I can no longer defend the likes of the Grand National. I've said this before and I will say it again - if jockeys were dying or suffering horrific injuries in the same numbers as the horses, can you imagine the outcry?
Yes, there are jockeys, owners and trainers who genuinely care for the horses and look after them well, but when it comes down to the bottom line, horse racing is driven by the betting industry and it's the money which talks - as far as that side of it is concerned, the horses are just a commodity.

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Absolutely disgusting and not in tune with people caring for animals. Shame on anyone who supports this foul sport or any other sport that uses animals for unhealthy entertainment.... dogs, roosters, bulls, whether rodeos or hunting or fishing - it all disgusts me.

*Barbarian, definition* : cruel, rude, or uneducated person.

The correct term for this sort of glee from the entertainment of events like the Grand National is called "deanimalisation". If you can't come to grips with this it is because you treasure history and tradition over common sense and compassion for other sentient beings. It is time to mature your consciousness.

Why would you be thrilled to watch a sport that kills a horse and not thrilled to watch a dog dying in the same race? Is it only because most of the beasts live?

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I have always said the same, if jockeys died instead of horses it would be a different story.

They will never stop while so much money is involved. The only concession might be to ban the whip. Is that a possibility?

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

I’m reminded of Pam Ayres’ poem about a racehorse making his will before a race, leaving his packet of polos to his stable mate. And mentioning, IIRC, the ‘nasty little short-arsed bastard’ who was his jockey.

I’ve got a book of her verses, but can’t find it. However I did once hear her recite it at a brilliant, packed performance. Mostly so funny, but one or two, inc. this, very poignant.

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Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

So do you think that fatally injured horses should be left in pain, whether they’re race horses or not?

^Certainly not confined in stables. They were taken down to the beach twice a day for an hours run for years. I was lucky enough to be there^

But REKA, horses should not be in stables with two trips to the beach every day. They have evolved to walk (yes walk) miles in a day and they need that constant movement for their health. Riding is no substitute for turnout with other horses where they can behave as they’re meant to behave.

This is not my prejudice speaking, there are many people with far more expertise saying these things all the time on social media and especially today in the wake of this awful tragedy. The bottom line is, racehorses may to our eyes live like kings but in fact all they want is to live like horses.

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

They are often euthanised straight away with most fractures because it is very difficult to repair them. Horses can’t stand still for weeks on end waiting for a fracture to heal and they often get further complications with infections etc. There have been several cases when they have tried to save horses but after several day/weeks/months of trying have had to give up. Broken ribs or pelvises don’t seem to be such a problem but horses feet and legs are so complicated along with their digestive systems so there’s the ongoing danger of laminitis and colic (which I will always maintain is the worst thing that can happen to any horse).

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

Definitely not. I hate horse racing and greyhound racing and think they should be banned.

GrannyGravy13

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

What's that got to do with anything?

Whataboutery at its' finest.

sixandahalf not whataboutery

Just pointing out facts…

Mollygo

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

So do you think that fatally injured horses should be left in pain, whether they’re race horses or not?

I think when Basgetti: wrote any sort of injury they included non fatal as well as fatal injuries Mollygro.

But you have already posted about having a flutter and horses not doing what they don't want to do.

This would seem to indicate you are fine with the GN.

So your comment about ponies kept by those who wish keep up with the Jones' is whataboutery.

sixandahalf

But you have already posted about having a flutter and horses not doing what they don't want to do.

This would seem to indicate you are fine with the GN.

So your comment about ponies kept by those who wish keep up with the Jones' is whataboutery.

I said the horse i fancied

I do not gamble on anything.

Racing is always evolving to make it safer, as it should do.

GrannyGravy13

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

You are quite right but your tack is called 'whataboutery' for a reason. Whataboutery adds nothing to the case in hand.

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

Oh, for heavens sake. Racehorses are NOT 'lashed', whether in training or while actually racing.

I have some sympathy with some of the arguments that people are making for abolishing horse racing, I even agree with some of them, but the hysteria over the 'whip' is totally misinformed.

Modern 'whips' are designed so as to not hurt the horse; they use what the horse can see and hear for their effect, not pain. This was all explained on the last thread we had on this topic, which was only a few weeks ago, with much the same participants.

Re the race itself. It is now ‘The National’ in name only. The hard core of the fence has been removed. The ditches are filled in. The drops have gone. It’s watered for days so the ground is good/soft. Horses have to meet certain criteria before they can run in it. The horse that won yesterday wouldn’t have got round a few years ago as he literally ploughed through most of the fences; in fact he only jumped one cleanly. I admit that, back in the day people used to watch it to see horses fall; there was something gladiatorial about it but, thankfully we have moved on from that.The drop at Bechers was greater on the inside of the track so good jumpers could save ground by jumping there. Today it looks just like any other jump. It’s still a test of stamina and jockeyship but not in the way it was. No idea why so many fell/unseated yesterday; most of them were very sound jumpers. Mr Vango is going to be ok thankfully.

“So do you think that fatally injured horses should be left in pain, whether they’re race horses or not?’

No, Mollygo, I don’t. Many injuries are far from fatal. They render the creature useless for the owner’s purposes, though, so off they go. (Personal experience: it was the case then, decades ago. Veterinary science has improved beyond measure but still racehorses are shot for perfectly recoverable injuries.)

GrannyGravy13

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

I agree and it’s certainly not “whataboutery” when it all concerns the welfare of horses.

BlueBelle

Never, never would watch it, it’s not entertainment, its horrible

That horse that was killed yesterday finished the race with a broken back and was whipped on after its fall
ITS HORRIFIC
JenniferEccles take your rose tinted glasses off
This is a killing game and everyone who has ‘a little flutter’ is supporting it and funding it
Shame on the horrible business it’s not a sport it’s killing fields

SO WELL SAID

Fallingstar

The horses are well cared for because they bring in a lot of money for the owner, but they will be flogged mercilessly during the race and some could be put down due to injuries sustained.
It is also gambling and that’s ok for those who just want a flutter but for countless addicts this could cost them their homes, marriages, or even their lives.
Sorry for being a party pooper but that’s how I feel.

National Hunt horses are meticulously and lovingly cared for and have the best of lives. During a race they are not 'flogged mercilessly' the whip is only allowed to be used 7 times. Any more than this and there are penalties against the jockey.
Some horses are injured (likewise jockeys) and inevitably some have to be euthanised which is always incredibly sad for all involved but is not a reason to restrict the sport.
The Grand National is a very testing course for any horse and consequently there may be more injuries than in the majority of races. It's unfortunate that this is often the only race some people ever see and leads to a poor view of the sport as a whole.
As for gambling you either agree with it or not, people don't just gamble on horses.