london

Sorry wrong thread meant to be on the Dover closed thread.

Holyhead full of lorries and cars now unable to cross from Holyhead to Dublin because Eire has closed its borders. No accommodation available so people sleeping in their cars this very cold night. Those of us with spare bedrooms frightened to help because if covid. What would the Good Samaritan have done in this situation?

eazybee maybe I explained wrong, and I can only speak as a Devon resident and a mother. Our son works for the MoD, he has to travel between Plymouth and London for work. He had to catch the train out of tier 4 on Saturday. He had to travel, along with many others in a similar situation. We welcome our children HOME. Just like the lorry drivers going home who are stranded, how long do people want them to wait?

Totally agree!

Another reason Casdon why Wales, Scotland and England should work in unison on this issue.

Casdon DH used to do that but weekly, it is tortuous.

That definitely figures Ellianne, Wales should have extended the lockdown when England went into the four week one then it wouldn’t have taken off so quickly and severely.

People in tier 4 may well be workers so presumably they have somewhere to stay. They have been told NOT to travel because they are at high risk of spreading the virus.

Nothing to do with ' we welcome our children home'.

There are probably some people in Devon and Cornwall who won't welcome the virus.

There must be some sort of link to the fact that Wales came out of lockdown ahead of the rest of the country when the new variant was taking hold. We are all heading the same way in a week or two.
The Kent connection sort of points to lorry drivers travelling from there?

No you’re right, it’s in the whole of the U.K., and people travel UK-wide for work and for leisure, so it could be lots of different routes of transfer, I guess we’ll never know - the point though was that we don’t know that it’s travel between South and North Wales that’s caused it either. I’m in mid Wales, so no axe to grind.

As this virus is so very infectious it doesn't take many people to spread it. My son used to work in S. Wales and travel back to N.Wales every weekend and he won't be the only one. Also colleagues used to travel regularly to S. Wales from the North so it is not impossible for the virus to be brought back here.

I agree Callistemon, it’s just as likely to have spread by North Wales based lorry drivers traveling through Kent, there’s not massive traffic between North and South Wales as it’s so tortuous.

The virus is already spreading. We learned today that it has spread from South Wales to North Wales.

I find that odd, though. Wales may be one country but travelling between South and North Wales is not that easy - well certainly not as easy as, eg, between S Wales and the M4 corridor or between N Wales and the North-West, which are within commuting distance.

My sister in law lives in East Sussex in tier 4 with her DH.

They have a lot of adult children and grandchildren, all are congregating in East Sussex having travelled far and wide- mainly from different parts of London. In my opinion, sheer madness. At this rate, if still alive I will be in the same position this time next year, on my own following the rules.

The virus is already spreading. We learned today that it has spread from South Wales to North Wales. The virus has had time to move up the country so blaming those leaving London is not fair. Many are people as others have said who work there and I am sure many have been travelling round the country over the last few weeks

eazybee a lot of the people leaving London are workers, as I said before.my son included. In the west country, Devon and Cornwall, we welcome our family members home.

eazybee, people are, in general, incredibly selfish (and self indulgent).

Many will do exactly what they want, when they want, by bending the rules - or inventing 'reasons' why they're an exception, a special case.

So many seem to think that rules are just for other people!

It is the people who have deliberately flouted the rules about not leaving tier 4 who concern me, attempting to escape the virus as though it is a tidal wave.
They are very likely bringing the virus, a rapid spreader, with them, spreading it on trains and planes, and I am sure Penzance, in tier 1, will be thrilled. Presumably these families will self-isolate for fourteen days?

Ellianne

It's all to do with limiting the adults mixing I think. But that's barmy, because if the grandparents have been in the kids' home all along they will inevitably have been touching stuff the parents handle and breathing in their air anyway.

You seem to have missed the point.

The grandparents will be travelling to a house in Tier 4. I'm also presuming that the parents live in Tier 4. Or perhaps the other way round. It's usually the case with childcare, the children are at the grandparents house. The possible contagious virus could come with these parents who work.
So yes, you're right in saying it is to do with limiting adults mixing and that is precisely what is not happening in this instance.

eazybee

It is very obvious that the latest lockdown rules and Tier 4 restrictions won't work because so many people are openly admitting they are going to break the rules, and actively advising other people to do so; they of course, are 'special cases'.
It also explains why previous measures have not worked as effectively as they should, because again people justify, to themselves, reasons for not observing them.

I am the same as you eazybee but there are a few who will bend the rules for this one day! Then what happens is others think: "well if he/she can do it, I will".

My niece's three boys are looked after by my brother and sister-in-law during the schools holidays except half terms (which parents take as holidays). The boys stay with them. They'd planned to usual to all stay over the Christmas period. This is now cancelled. So my brother will not see his daughter and family till goodness knows when. The childcare bubble does not exist when parents are there to care for their children.

So to those encouraging others to break and bend the rules, go ahead. Just don't go up in arms when others, you can't sympathise with do it, eg Cummings. It's one rule for us all

This variant is considered to be 70% more contagious. My voice of reason tells me, everyone needs to stick with and abide by the rules.

Gov.Uk is quite clear about this. People will still be able to form support bubbles – even under tier 4 restrictions – if they are at particular risk of loneliness or isolation. If anything contrary is done to this then rules are being broken.

It is very obvious that the latest lockdown rules and Tier 4 restrictions won't work because so many people are openly admitting they are going to break the rules, and actively advising other people to do so; they of course, are 'special cases'.
It also explains why previous measures have not worked as effectively as they should, because again people justify, to themselves, reasons for not observing them.

It's all to do with limiting the adults mixing I think. But that's barmy, because if the grandparents have been in the kids' home all along they will inevitably have been touching stuff the parents handle and breathing in their air anyway.

I totally agree with Callistemon. When the parents are in their house, they could be in one room relaxing and watching TV while the children are "helping" prepare the food or whatever. Common sense has to be applied and no rules are being broken. The parents will be more rested and hopefully relaxed with that arrangement.

I cannot see what difference between looking after the grandchildren for 11 hours on Tuesday which is allowed and seeing them for perhaps 5 hours on Friday which is not.

Rules are made for the good of us all, this particular one included, but in the case of those who have formed a childcare bubble, it seems illogical.

Callistemon

^However on Christmas Day we are not allowed to see them! Tier 4 rules!^
maddyone if this is what you want to do, then that is part of your childcare bubble duties. I expect your DD and SIL might be spending half of Christmas Day nodding off, they must be exhausted, so you will be needed to look after your grandchildren.

Another voice of reason**Callistemon*. I fully agree, bend the rules for those exhausted parents.