Coronavirus - are older people being treated as expendable?

jane ? yes, I shall think ‘buggeration’ or something similar to, in that event.
Am giving advance notice that the inscription on my headstone should read:
‘Here lies Lemongrove....and she’s bloody annoyed’ !

I think this country is great. Hospitals for the Hoi Poloi in Italy are a bit third world ( I was in one two years ago)
My Father had surgery in the UK when he was 90 to help make him more comfortable re his bowel Cancer. My Step MIL was 96 when she died and had great care in the UK, My FIL is 95 and we have just spoken to his Doctor who has visited him at home to give him his three monthly injections. He has Prostate Cancer. My MIL was 94 when she died and also had great care in the UK. My Father died at 96 in the end and also had great care in the UK.
But this situation is slightly different as there won’t be enough ventilators to go round.
I would prefer my children to live rather than myself, but I will think ‘ bugger’ if I die now. My grandchildren usually give me something and we are due to go on holiday with them a lot during the coming year, what a dilemma.

I live in France but spend 3 months from Xmas each year in the UK to see family and friends so we are here now. We were all set to return home when last Sat we heard that 2 people had tested positive in our little town . That no. stands at 15 as of Thurs all stemming from the original two. However its a community of 3k so everyone knows and greets everyone with a kiss or a handshake so the numbers will rise. What to do? Do we self isolate here, or there? We have found it very difficult to get access to healthcare here despite the fact we are entitled as pensioners and I have had to resort to ordering and paying for an inhaler online today because the surgery say they need to see my old records before giving me one, even though I last saw a doc here 6 years ago and he has now retired. The journey home is risky but fortunately we chose to come by ferry this time rather than plane so can stay in our cabin apart from getting on and off. I keep expecting to wake up and find it was some awful nightmare!

With you there 100%

That’s the attitude Hollycat we should all decide not die, just to spite them. I’m 66 with HBP and asthma, but I’ve decided not to die, well not yet anyway. I confess to feeling a bit worried about my 92 year old mother though.

If they close schools who will look after the children their grandparents

Yes of course we're expendable. I’m 74. I’ve decided I won’t die, out of spite!

Exactly that, I'm sure.

I’ve been speaking to my final-year-student medic daughter this evening. She’s currently working in a hospital and she said that age in itself is almost never a factor in treatment. You may have a sprightly 94yo with no major health problems and a frail 54yo with multiple, life-shortening conditions. That’s what the choice might come down to.

Me and my DH are retired and decided a week ago to self isolate as much as possible. Better for us and better for the NHS if we try to avoid catching the virus.

I do think that the virus is very widespread, the quoted numbers do not reflect the reality. The people I know personally with symptoms have not been tested and are self isolating for 2 weeks.

I personally think at the age of 64 that if I presented at the hospital with breathing difficulties, I would not be prioritised for an intensive care bed. Fact. I would expect younger people to be first in the queue. Sad but realistic.

That is why we will continue with our self isolation for the foreseeable future.

ayse: that reminds me: why is there a shortage of eggs? When I ordered online at Tesco most of them were unavailable.

For the past - years rather than months - we have seen on the news how we old folks are taking up valuable hospital beds when we could go home; what an expensive drain we cause to public spending; how we demand free care in the community (when actually we can get it if we need it through Attendance Allowance which will give a number of free care hours and hospitals could help the elderly apply for that). The attitude towards the elderly is dreadful.

I get incensed when someone comes on the news and says we should look after the elderly. I do not believe that if the number of icu beds is limited they would give one to us, not after the things being said. Can you imagine someone who is left in A&E on a trolley for 6 hours being given a icu bed now? If the disease affects the elderly, disabled, and cancer patients more than any other why promise to spend millions on providing new beds when they were rubbishing us a few weeks ago? Could be Aldous Huxley's brave new world.

That sounds nasty paperbackwriter I would ignore it as annie suggests. People can be vile on Twitter, that’s why I don’t do it.

I saw that thread paperbackwriter best ignored. Just awful.

Why the difficulties surrounding ventilators? Basically what we need is a big lot of oxygen bottles with gauges to screw in the tops, lengths of rubber tubing to attach to the gauges, a simple tap to turn on and off, and plastic funnels to stick in the other end of the tubing.

If anyone's in doubt about how little our generation is cared about by some, there's a hashtag on Twitter: #boomerremover in which it is clear that many utterly sick bastards think our generation are about to get our just desserts. Good luck everyone - stay as well as you can.

The government insists the health advice they have received from scientists is the best way forward. I’d like to remind everyone about the salmonella and eggs (Edwina Curry); BSE that at the time was dismissed as not being passed into the food chain and HIV and blood products although there were other voices.

I watched Question Time this morning and there was a very vociferous scientist, Professor John Aston who left no doubt to the audience that he felt the government were not acting quickly enough to limit the spread.

It seems to me that older people have been told to stay indoors so that the virus can spread amongst the rest of the population, thus providing herd immunity for the future.

I am perturbed that we seem so out of step with other European countries who would also have received expert advice.

It concerns me greatly for all those with underlying conditions. Only time will tell!

I feel it’s not just elderly, it will be everyone that’s viewed as non cost effective.Homeless, non workers,disabled ,vulnerable and over 60s .
It’s been all about cost for a long time just not talked about .
When I had an accident in 2009 and bones did not heal in correct position ,I went to see consultant and she asked me if I was in work I said yes then she said she could offer me an operation then.
Which in my mind suggested if I had said no I would not have been offered it .

GracesGran has made two absolutely on the mark posts. Firstly I am just as sure as she is that should a vaccine be developed, and it will in due course, the elderly and vulnerable will be the first to get it. Obviously it is much better from the government’s point of view that the hospitals are not overloaded with 60+ people and if there’s anything that can be done to prevent it, it will be done. A vaccine falls into the category of anything that can be done.
Secondly as GracesGran points out the government will do the best it can with the information it’s got, and highly qualified medics are advising the government. It wouldn’t be any different if we had a different government because the medics would be giving the same advice. I won’t be blaming Boris Johnson if my elderly mother succumbs to Coronavirus, but if Jeremy Corbyn had won the election and was now our Prime Minister, nor would I be blaming him. It’s the virus that’s killing people.

The younger ones don't need it first though. Usually these vaccines start with the health workers, then onto the sick and elderly.

Au haven’t read all these responses, but have been listening to the radio and the views of an eminent professor of infection and immunology who makes it quite clear that it is necessary to gain herd immunity and of course the NHS needs to manage the available resources. It is never going to be possible to keep everyone happy. There are those who are upset that they are being prevented from visiting elderly friends/ relatives in care homes. So no - I don’t think the needs of the elderly are being overlooked.

Jools22 I have wondered if the reason so many young people died in the 1918 epidemic was because so many of them had spent the previous four years crammed together up to their knees in mud in the trenches, That is only my personal theory though.

Well said Cupcake. The lives of all human beings are important.
Take care.

Panic abounds and as much I would like to say I’m not terribly worried, I am. My DH who is 67 with diabetes and heart problems said to me “I don’t want to die just yet” which made me very sad as usually he is so active and upbeat mentally and physically. I caught a nasty bug New Year’s Eve and my chest still feels tight and congested and having high blood pressure, not sure I’d survive this virus either. What I really cannot contemplate is why these big sporting events are allowed to carry on, it is only the ones who take the decision to not play due to self isolation or concern for their supporters nothing to do with the government. I live not to far from Glastonbury where thousands go for the festival in cramped crowded spaces with hygiene already pretty poor to say the least. I can just image the surge in cases as they all head home to wherever that might be. Hopefully someone will see sense to cancel before then but I’m not holding my breath. As usual the economy comes before the health of the nation that is abundantly clear! Whilst like many others here our DC and DGC are the most important but we should still be seen as giving a valuable input to society - especially as, like many others on here, continue to do a vast amount of childcare, are active in community and others who still work due to the rise in pension age. I could go on but I just hope the ‘delayed action’ the U.K. has adopted is the right one for all, not just the young, fit and healthy. Take care of yourselves ladies - and gents! take every precaution, that’s all we can do. x

When Phil ask has it become the survival of the fittest the Dr at first stuttered to answer it then went on that before go into hospital we should have a conversation we our loved ones but wasn’t clear what. She also said she has a lot of life to live so she’s ok. She may have forgotten that the second year of the Spanish flu killed people in their 20-40s and the old where spared