Coronavirus - are older people being treated as expendable?

Of course we would Grany however well funded, in an emergency of great magnitude extra beds would have to be found somewhere....this virus is unprecedented for our modern society.

Readymeals older people are an asset to the economy. not a drain. We are worth up to £100 billion in our spending, childcare, dependent care, volunteer work etc.

Food sales would plummet, clothes sales, council revenues would fall. The tourist industry would be disrupted.It would be a major disruptor to the economy. Wiping us out could ruin our grandchildren's future.

We have as much right to life as anyone else in this country and at least by this selfexclusion policy, however problematic, the government is showing that it realises that we have a value to the country, economy and society, even if we don't

I am left wondering whether we are seeing the last vestiges of the conditioning of women to always put themselves last in the willingness of women on Gransnet to be ready to throw themselves on the flames of Cronavirus.

Any competition for ventilators will not be between old and young, it will be between two elderly people with different conditions. You will not be sacrificing yourselves for your grandchildren, you will be sacrificing yourself for that nasty old woman down the road.

8,000 private hospital beds to be rented to the NHS for £2.4million per day - capitalism is failing us and the private sector is lapping up the profits

If that comes with the medical staff - which is what controls whether a bed is open or closed usually - it could well be a good way of increasing or beds while we need them. Don't get me wrong, I do think the NHS has been underfunded and not updated but no country can allow constantly for something that is once in a generation.

The NHS renting beds from the private sector isn't new. It has been used in the past to reduce waiting times.
A friend used to work as a manager in a private hospital & I remember him saying that it was cost-effective for the NHS to do that, because the private beds actually cost less than NHS beds.
It would cost the NHS huge amounts to maintain beds that are only needed in case of dire emergency. Much better to fall back on the private sector as and when needed.

Surely now isn't the time for political dogma to take precedence over working together for the common good.

Grany

As I said earlier.

I guess reading Gransnet is a mirror of real life.

Some of us are pragmatic.
Some of us are scared.
Some of us weaponize the situation for politics.

I think you are the latter.

Our local hospital has always used private hospitals especially around winter time when there's an influx of broken limbs, as it takes the pressure off the NHS for treating the winter ills etc. You'll find that most surgeons work between both.

Since 2010 the conservative government has cut 17,000 beds.

You are impervious to hint's aren't you Grany?

I expect some distant ancestor of yours was inveighing against the capitalists to the crew as the Titanic went down.

I too have had NHS treatment in a private hospital.

I and other patients were asked to leave hospital on Friday after only 2 nights following a full replacement knee operation to free up beds for potential Corona victims and to enable staff to be trained. Hard on my 81- year-old husband, who is looking after me single handed: “Where’s my shirt? “ syndrome!

I should be worried but I have come through meningitis a colostomy ,3 hernias a hysterectomy and other ops, so I'm in for the long haul. Oh I nearly 67 so plenty of fight left in me . Peace and love to you all.

I've had NHS treatment in a private hospital too, as did DD.

Bravo lemongrove! Spot on as always.

Expert after expert, doctor after doctor are asking the government to explain their strategy. I understand that there's to be a COBRA meeting tomorrow. Let's hope they either backtrack or explain their thinking.

' Anthony Costello, a UK paediatrician and former director of the World Health Organization (WHO), said he had personally written to the chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, asking for testing to continue in the community.

“The key principles from WHO are intensive surveillance,” he told the Guardian. “You test the population like crazy, find out where the cases are, immediately quarantine them and do contact tracing and get them out of the community. This deals with family clusters. That’s the key bedrock of getting this under control.”'

I appreciate that some want drastic action. At least it would feel as if we are doing something but I strangely have some faith in what the government are doing. I think they should keep listening to scientists about our country on our island.

The UK is not as much of an outlier as it sometimes seems. Germany is doing much the same. The government has watched the measures that seem to have all but eliminated the virus in some countries but does not believe it can be maintained.

We may all have opinions about that but the one thing the government cannot do is to not make a decision. So they are following a particular path which doesn't offer miracles but a thought-through, scientifically-backed plan. Part of that plan is about protecting older and vulnerable people. They believe this will exclude us from the worst and move us into a period where they can offer those who do get it, better and more available treatment.

GG3 I think they’ve been quite successful in ‘nudging’ us into changing our behaviour voluntarily.
I’ve spent some time yesterday and this morning cancelling planned get-togethers with friends & informing classes that we go to, that we won’t be back till it’s all over.
The reaction has been the same from everyone - agreement and relief that we’re doing the right thing in staying home.
It’s as though a tipping point has been reached and far better that it should happen that way, than the government having to impose and then enforce restrictions, China-style.

the fact that they want to quarantine older people is for us oldies to be safe. my village has already started a group whereby anyone who needs help can find a contact quickly. let's use positive energy.

Tweedle24. Thanks, I had not known that about ventilators.

lemongrove Yes I realise the 50 ventilators figure was ridiculous but that is what he said and I’m glad someone else came on and verified what I’d heard or I’d have questioned my sanity. 5000 is a much healthier figure although by all accounts still nowhere near enough.

I haven't read all the thread as there is an awful lot of it, but my neighbour's son is a leading Anaesthetist in the UK and is involved with COBRA and the ventilator story IS correct - although the number of 50 may not be accurate, it is NOT FAKE NEWS there are not enough ventilators nor ITU beds to treat all the people that may need these facilities after catching this virus!!

Therefore, if there are 2 ventilators, and the ones that need it are someone of 40 who is a parent and works, or a fit 70 year old who is retired, the ventilator WILL go the 40 year old - and horrible choices like that will be made. He has already told his Mum, that despite who he is, she will NOT get a ventilator and she is to lock down now and stay at home - she isn't mind!

Not testing for the virus is a bad move, but will keep BOJO's numbers down, and I would imagine that the DWP will be laughing behind closed doors as all us 'useless eaters' and many of the non working population will be greatly thinned out ....

IF we knew where the virus was, it would help us to avoid it! We need to be testing!

Amazing that the government have almost turned on its head over the weekend. I think that they gauged that the public response to just leaving the whole swathes of the population to die was not going down too well. Seems that the figures have been revisited. Well there you go.

Its all well and good telling us to self isolate and not to stockpile. We got our Sainsbury order. Had ordered one bleach one handwash one antibacterial spray. None available. Obviously the order was done after the morning grab. We tried to do the right thing. Surely shops could do better and make orders up before the shop opens, limiting everyone to one item of these essentials. Or we'll be forced to join the queues.

Just read that all non- urgent surgery is to be postponed/cancelled countrywide freeing up 30,000 beds. This does not include cancer patients and, no doubt, there will be other exceptions.

I think many deliveries are collated at central warehouses, not in store.

Our death is quite low compared with Germany France and Spain.