Coronavirus - are older people being treated as expendable?

Completely agree doodledog, it's also the case that those of us who can are helping our children out in all sorts of ways - financial, childcare, support. We actually contribute a lot.

I think we are in uncharted territory as regards the virus, but in general I do feel that older people are being treated as a nuisance, and that the government and media are encouraging this way of thinking.

We are always hearing about how 'the young' are expected to pay for our pensions, for instance, which ignores the fact that most of us have paid NI for decades, which paid for the previous generation, and has been the basis of 'the system' from the start. This is also true of the NHS - to withdraw its services now to those who have paid for the equipment and so on that can save lives seems extremely unjust.

It is also assumed by some that the majority of older people have so-called 'gold-plated' pensions and live in houses bought for £10 that are now worth millions. That may be true for a minority, but is certainly not the norm - particularly outside of London and the SE - but it does seem to fuel the resentment that some younger people feel towards the over-60s.

The phrase 'OK Boomer' is used to mean that whatever your point of view, experience or knowledge, you can never be taken seriously because of your date of birth, and the concept of being 'economically inactive' is creeping in and becoming shorthand for 'a drain on resources'.

I find it depressing, to be honest. I've never held that age in itself should be a reason for someone being given more respect than a younger person; but neither do I feel that it should be used as a reason for them to get less.

To be honest, although my family definitely still need me, I AM more expendable than my 30 year old daughter. She is the mum of a young child.

It isn't that I have a death wish, but in the order of priorities, I am not top.

I can’t vouch for the 50 ventilator info but it came via tv news, probably skynews. It’s not something I read and it was last week I believe. I remember being shocked at such a small number.

Unfortunately, if there are not enough intensive care beds or ECMO machines, then the medical staff just cannot give everyone the care they need. Can you imagine how difficult that decision is going to be for our doctors and nurses?

Who do you choose. The person with the best chance of recovery with the intensive care? We will be facing an unprecedented situation for which there is no solution.

Fewer per capita

it's easy to throw out everything as fake news if this suits your point of view

Absolutely, anniezzz
That goes for all.

There are fewer ICU beds in Wales than anywhere else in the UK.

Most ICU beds are already occupied anyway.

lemongrove I'd like to see you provide some figures as to the number of ventilators in the NHS and the numbers of staff available for ICU in the UK. It's easy to throw out everything as fake news if it suits your point of view.

As it happens, this article sets out the situation and makes it clear how unprepared this country is for a pandemic. Sorry it'#s from the Guardian who I'm sure you think is full of fake news!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/03/icu-doctor-nhs-coronavirus-pandemic-hospitals

Oh and at the end it says: This article was amended on 9 March 2020 to say that Britain ranked 24th out of 31 European countries in terms of ICU beds per head of population, not 23rd as an earlier version said.

24th out of 31 countries in terms of ICU beds, so good to have the statistics!

No, I think everyone gets the same treatment, regardless of age, disability, health or otherwise.

That’s Italy though, not here.Different health systems in any case.
Also, beware fake news, and it’s mainly older people there who have even needed a ventilator.

Earlier I was talking to a friend with an Italian DIL The younger woman has several friends in the medical profession in Italy and apparently they are being told that any one over 60 should not be put on a ventilator. The medical staff are suffering severe stress because they have to take these decisions.

Listening to Jeremy Vine today there was an expert talking about children and how they are the least likely to get the virus and, if they do, it won't be as strong so they won't get so ill. However, children are a major source of infection, especially for those people who don't come across them very often so IMO perhaps more thought should be given to closing schools.

I don’t agree at all that pensioners are being written off.
Far from it in fact, nearly everything being done is for our benefit, since younger and healthier people will only have mild symptoms with this virus.
Certainly, older people are the most worried, and with good reason, but that’s all it is.

ticking don’t worry, there are plenty of ventilators, that figure of 50 is just laughable ( too much fake news about.)

This sounds like engendering panic to me.

Where's all the NHS money gone if there are only so many ventilators ? Successive governments have ploughed millions into the NHS over the years, aren't we , the public who use the facility entitled to see where people's tax ends up ?

What about the homeless ? The alcoholics. ? The drug users ?

To write off pensioners is very worrying.
Will the government please reassure us that murderers in prison will not be treated if the old are not ?
For sixty years DH has been a taxpayer and indeed is still giving the inland revenue 40% tax. We have never claimed one penny in benefit and have given to medical charities more than we spend on ourselves so to learn that we are a disposable commodity is very sad.

I really can't believe that figure tickingbird, that would mean that vast numbers of hospitals didn't even have one. Where did you get the information from?

I was shocked to hear that there are only 50 ventilators in the country. My brother (who sadly passed in December with sepsis) was on a ventilator for two weeks in the ICU and I just assumed there was lots of them. It's scary.

Unfortunately I think that elderly - myself included - as well as people with an underlying condition are being considered expendable. It will save the exchequer a lot of money and they consider us to have passed being useful. Also with some people they will be doubly lucky as their children etc may need to pay inheritance tax!
They are generally taking a very cavalier attitude to all this - just been on the news that Irish schools will be closed from tomorrow.

On the Today programme this morning (only half listening so don't know who the expert was) someone said words to the effect that every day doctors make decisions as to who will/won't benefit from further treatment so if there's a run on ITU beds it's likely that an older person with co-morbidities and less likely to survive will take second place to a younger healthier person.

Whether that's currently happening I don't know, but it's likely to as we don't have sufficient ITU facilities.

To a young person anyone over 50 is considered ancient. Once you reach that age you realise there's an awful lot of living yet to do and seeing as we have to work until much older I believe older people should be treated the same as anyone else. I, personally, still lead an active life, have a family that rely on me and enjoy my life more at the moment than I did when I was 30 years younger.

I'm not sure about the question posed in the thread title.
However, it's a little close for comfort to know that the day centre DS attends is closed until further notice as someone has had contact with someone who's tested positive.
I agree all large gatherings should be cancelled. Arsenal cancelled their match last night.

On tv this morning a doctor implied that if we don’t have signed a form to be cared for we will be shuffled off

Annie I agree with you, you only had to look at a gathering of 5,000 at Cheltenham Races, why wasn't it cancelled. It seems to me that the younger people are not particularly bothered about spreading it.