Coronavirus - are older people being treated as expendable?

I think this country is great. Hospitals for the Hoi Poloi in Italy are a bit third world ( I was in one two years ago)
My Father had surgery in the UK when he was 90 to help make him more comfortable re his bowel Cancer. My Step MIL was 96 when she died and had great care in the UK, My FIL is 95 and we have just spoken to his Doctor who has visited him at home to give him his three monthly injections. He has Prostate Cancer. My MIL was 94 when she died and also had great care in the UK. My Father died at 96 in the end and also had great care in the UK.
But this situation is slightly different as there won’t be enough ventilators to go round.
I would prefer my children to live rather than myself, but I will think ‘ bugger’ if I die now. My grandchildren usually give me something and we are due to go on holiday with them a lot during the coming year, what a dilemma.

jane ? yes, I shall think ‘buggeration’ or something similar to, in that event.
Am giving advance notice that the inscription on my headstone should read:
‘Here lies Lemongrove....and she’s bloody annoyed’ !

Lol Lemongrove

Very interesting [& some funny] read, just sat and read the lot!Now I'm worried though!

Had GC over for dinner till late yesterday, couldn't bear not seeing them & my DD. I work with lots of people 6days pw. will be using lots of hand sanitiser & will not be hands on till this is over, sure my students will be thankful for that too.

According to Financial Times, based on 2012 research statistics, Germany had over 4x the number of ICU beds as UK (and we know we've cut back since then).
Currently Germany has 25,000 ICU beds equipped with ventilators . So is it possible that a very approx number of ventilators in UK could be about 6000?

I guess reading Gransnet is a mirror of real life.

Some of us are pragmatic.
Some of us are scared.
Some of us weaponize the situation for politics.

Some of us seem to be living in vacuum and have not heard /read / watched the constant, relentless flow of media coverage that has concentrated on nothing else but the virus and provided information such as ' CATCH IT, BIN IT, WASH YOUR HANDS.'

As a general point if adults cannot read the runes and accept that this a Pandemic which in turn means illness and death then I am truly shocked by such naivety .

It is and always will be the case that in emergency situations a medic will have to rationalise the situation, make hard decisions and will inevitably try to save the life of the patient he sees as having the best chance of survival.

When it is a virus with no cure presenting itself and the killer is breathing /lung related as adults surely we can accept the obvious outcome, those with COPD, underlying health problems /immune systems are the ' AT RISK GROUP '.

The 11 deaths so far recorded have been, as far as I am aware, sadly the demise of patients who were in the ' At Risk Group'. It would be ridiculous to say it is not a recognised fact the older generation will be in the ' At Risk Group'.

Take as much responsibility for your own life as you possibly can and use your ruddy common sense because NO government or Health System ' ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD ' cannot protect an entire population.

If you don't need to go out, don't, If you do go out wear a mask if you want to and don't touch your face unless you have scrupulously washed your hands as that is how you catch the virus. Is that telling your granny how to suck eggs, yes, because it seems to me if anybody says they think there has not been enough information they are genuinely unaware or playing silly b****rs and I wonder which is the case at times.

The fact there is an economic connect too is stating the bleeding obvious and that crosses over into personal, Buisiness, public services, the way we live our lives in general for a long time and that is a purely unknown massive issue which we will ALL have to get to grips with.

There has been ten more deaths in the UK, apparently.

Pragmatism is the name of the game where I am concerned. The nanny state simply does not have the time or the staff to go round personally briefing each individual on their exact risk status. We have got to work that out for ourselves and then act accordingly.

However, just saying to older people 'self isolate' is not helpful There are nearly 12 million people in the UK over 65, nearly 20 percent of the population. Many have caring responsibilities, others are volunteers and desperately needed by the charities they work with - and self-isolate - with no indication how long we will need to do it? Yes, 2 weeks isolation if you have, or think you have the disease, is one thing, but generally self isolate? We could end up having to do that for months on end. What sort of mental state would we be in by the end of it?

My reaction is that I can self-isolate for a fortnight at a drop of a hat if necessary, but longer than that for my own mental health and sanity, while acting with care, I will go to the supermarket once a week, probably early in the morning when there are few people in it. I will continue to go to the farm shops round me for the food I buy from them. They are all large and airy and I can keep a proper distance between me and anyone else.

But whether I like it or not, most of my usual activities are closing down for the duration anyway. I have been taking part in an online discussion today with one group, where I am on the committee and we have decided to cancel all our activities for the forseeable future. We have a couple of outdoor rural visits organised where people use their own cars for transport. These may go ahead, but all the talks are cancelled.

I am 88 and my sons are in their 60s. I'd far rather their lives were saved than mine.

Good for you POGS well said!

Thank you Alexa

WHY ISN'T THE PRIME MINISTER ADAPTING SUITABLE FACTORIES TO MANIFACTURE LIFE SAVING VENTILATORS WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME?

In a news report from inside an Italian hospital, a doctor said that the situation was horrific because there were not enough ventilators for all the sick.

This is a death by drowning in your own lung fluid.

My apologies for the capital letters. I just hoped someone out there might know what we can do to demand action from the Prime Minister. Any ideas?

I honestly don’t believe it’s possible to just set up a factory somewhere and start churning out ventilators.

With my phobia, it terrifies me and I hope that the people who are dying through lack of ventilators are being heavily sedated because the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about.

We might well be considered 'expendable oldies' - but let's see how 'expendable' we are when it comes to a desperate need for cheap / unpaid / voluntary childcare provision.

Who'll be available to mind all the 'under-12's' who aren't supposed to be left unsupervised during school holidays / shut-downs / Baker Days / Teacher Training Days etc, if we're allowed to just drop off our perches?

Ticking bird, you may be absolutely right. But you may be wrong. It's a question that begs a difinitive answer from someone in the know. Any suggestions from anybody who, where to ask it please?

There are drugs available to deal with pain Tickingbird but, pneumonia generally is not painful. There are exceptions to every rule, of course. Pneumonia used to be known as ‘the old lady’s friend’ because one just slips quietly away.

The reason Spanish Flu killed so many young people in 1918 was that it was a different kind of virus. It triggered the immune system, which went into overdrive, which was what killed people. Older people generally have weaker immune systems, so didn't suffer quite so much.

There has been research on the Spanish Flu epidemic. It certainly didn't help that populations had been living in poor conditions during WW1 and troops were cooped together for months on end in unsanitary conditions, but the main reason it killed a disproportionate number of people between 20-40 was that ironically, they were healthier than others.

POGS well said good analysis I agree entirely

Tweedle24 I hope you’re right. It’s not the pain that causes me concern it’s the thought of not being able breathe!

I don't think having scepticism about the government and the PM counts as " weaponising" , what a silly phrase.

Athena I understand there are plans to ask major engineering companies to transfer production to ventilators, but just being practical, you need all the parts, parts need designing, even if a manufacturer gets full design drawings from another, machinery has to be adapted tradesman have to be trained and, initially, there will probably be a high defect rate.

In the meanwhile I am sure existing manufacturers are probably running 24/7, but getting other companies up and running could take months.

Ventilators are good up to a point but what will also be needed for some will be ECMO facilities. (Extra corporeal membrane oxygenation).

Just watching Matt Hancock on Sophy Ridge saying they will be asking the over 70s to self-isolate for up to 4 months.

I am happy to do this but I would really like to see the information they are getting now and for them to start testing again or give us a reason why not.

Athena, factories are being adapted as we write, some of our best manufacturing engineering companies such as rolls royce have been called in to make them. All is not lost, not at all. Stay positive, positive is good for you, stress is not. If you cannot stay positive then stay off scaremongering threads and away from the media. Listen to some uplifting 70s dance music. We will get through this

gracesgran, I have tried to help by giving as much information as possible. What more do you need? If you want analytical, read up on scientific papers. There is no magic bullet