Not protected

Except it isn’t quite true that different levels are used in some countries. In China, full hazmat gear. In one infectious disease hospital in Italy, exclusively treating C19 patients, not a single staff member has contracted it.

Yup seen that too, except think about it, they are wearing the same filter masks and suits all day ( italian and chinese nurses say so on posts on SM and video/media clips) so to do so outside an ITU setting A: may not be catching it but will be spreading it and other things on top. B. Will be a huge strain on your body! Have you not seen the footage of italian and chinese nurses saying they cant even have a drink of water or a wee all shift because they are wearing the same ppe all day?

Ppe is not designed to be worn that way

notanan unclear why I should cease political sniping as you put it?

I am alarmed as clearly many of the journalists and people on social media are when they see doctors on television including the head of the BMA as well as postings from clinicians in social media.

Whatever you are saying, this government had let the nhs down very badly indeed. People are dying because of lack of protection, whatever Hancock likes us to think.

Not a question of disagreeing with you, notanan. You sound very authoritative, as though you are speaking from intimate knowledge of nursing and NHS procedures.

Most people whose knowledge is research informed, rather than professional, tend to cite the research which they are relying on. So that others can check their interpretation as well as judge the reliability of the research.

Of course anyone can join in. But 'anyone' could as well be talking bullsh*t as talking fact.

I'm sorry, oopsminty, you must be very worried about your relatives working on the frontline.

But other countries have shown a great deal more preparedness than the UK and we know that a recent exercise rehearsing exactly the the conditions which the NHS finds itself in now concluded that it would fail because it wasn't prepared. The government decided that it would not be cost effective to prepare the NHS for such an emergency and the report was shelved. We are paying now.

And it is most certainly political. Had a Labour government been similarly unwilling to plan for a pandemic it would be, and would deserve to be, equally sniped at.

I'd be really grateful if notanan could remind us again of why we should treat her posts as being completely authoritative.

Never said you should. Do your own research. I'm allowed to join in though

If you disagree with me Im interested to hear why

I think the idea of wearing scrubs is so that the person can take them off at work at the end of their shift and put them in a special laundering bag

Hospital laundry is sent out not dont in house so you can only send back the laundrys own products to them to be laundered. That is why they dont do uniforms.

Anywhere using these home made scrubs (certainly not any hospitals near me) will need to take them home to launder, same as uniforms.

Scrubs are both very airy to allow staff to stay cool in them under extra eqyipment, but also thick in terms of not being seethrough.

That is why in summer uniformed staff are allowed to switch to them on very hot days. They are very cool (temp wise) but dignified.

If people are using any old fabric, staff may as well wear their uniforms

I'd be really grateful if notanan could remind us again of why we should treat her posts as being completely authoritative.

While I, and I'm sure others, are grateful for what appears to be reassuring information, there frequently feels like an element of 'the government can do no wrong' in them.

Surely WW2, you can see this is a problem all over the world?

It's absurd to bang on and on.

I have 2 close relatives working all the hours god sends on the front line. They are having an horrific time on covid wards. One of them on end of life care.

They are fortunate that their hospitals are coping

The political sniping should stop

No country in the world was prepared for this

Also we could go back to 2006 when research at Chinese wet markets discovered a coronavirus that could pass from animals to humans

But nobody listened to that either

GrannyLaine I've seen those posts too, but I know from people who work in hospitals that they won't accept them. Knitted, crotcheted or sewn from fabric face masks might look pretty but they're useless as protection.

Callistemon Are you saying that there is PPE equipment sitting around in warehouses somewhere, but it's not being delivered? I must say it's not the story (only anecdotal) that I've heard.

It is the role of government to be prepared for crises. Of course nobody could have foreseen this particular crisis at this time, but a pandemic has always been a possibility and there should have been plans in place.

After the fridges and ferries fiascos, it's becoming clear that there are serious problems in systems management at senior level. It's probably just as well that *iss ups have been banned because it seems nobody could organise one!

I am only posting what I know from two hospitals; for some reason the delivery of the PPE gear in some areas. seems to be what is at fault.
Yet we know someone involved in the transport industry who has been laid off and wishes to work.
Why are firms not recruited to deliver to those areas which say they are not receiving the equipment?

Whitewavemark2

I was merely correcting the statement of the OP.

I think the idea of wearing scrubs is so that the person can take them off at work at the end of their shift and put them in a special laundering bag, so hopefully taking less contamination into their cars/public transport/homes with them.

I am unclear what those who keep posting that there is as we know a shortage of PPE throughout the world are trying to say?

I assume it is to attempt to take the focus from the poor show of this government? Our first case of covid was in January in the U.K.

The government was told in 2017 of something like this happening.

I will accept no excuse for their abysmal record to date, neither their decision regarding herd instinct nor there their tardiness in their preparation. The country is beginning to wake up and understand.

Medical workers the world over are experiencing the same problem

In Pakistan 53 doctors were arrested for campaigning for more PPE

I can give you links of news from Spain where medical workers are complaining they dont have the proper protection.

Except it isn’t quite true that different levels are used in some countries. In China, full hazmat gear. In one infectious disease hospital in Italy, exclusively treating C19 patients, not a single staff member has contracted it. (Haven’t watched the whole video, I read an article about it a week ago and can’t find it now).

HERE our staff wear different levels. Which is why they’re catching it.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=svGD6e_X_2w

Callistemon I'm slightly puzzled by the social media call for anyone who can sew to download patterns and make scrubs. Some went so far as to suggest that old duvet covers could be used............. this is simply unthinkable. Would I want to wear such garments to do a highly professional job? No thank you! Workplace uniforms, scrubs or otherwise need to comply to safety regulations. I understand some of the fashion companies such as Burberry have been contracted to make scrubs which is much more appropriate.

Sorry, sp.

I didn't understand why there was a cal, for anyone who could to sew scrubs as there is a shortage.

Then I realised that perhaps scrubs were needed for all those who have volunteered to go back in to help, having, eft or retired, but may not be working in ICUs.

People still may require a lot of nursing whilst they are recovering but are no longer infectious.

For the government to dare suggest that nurses are misusing the scrubs ,and indirectly that they would deprive workmates

But that has happened.
Scrubs offer no better protection than normal uniforms.
However, because people see front line/itu workers in them (ppl who worse scrubs daily before CV) some see them as somehow higher tech or necessary or protective but theyre not.

The scrubs have been locked away because the areas where scrubs are necessary or not hasnt actually changed.

Wearing scrubs all day on a ward is NO safer than wearing a uniform

notanan

Yes, good posts.
And with all that gear on and working long shifts they must be at risk of dehydration and be losing salts too which may put the staff working in ICU at greater risk.

There are groups on facebook , making scrubs for nurses requesting it for their hospitals or teams . Making it with fabric they're buying themselves from ebay or private firms , I don't think the nurses requesting it or the people making it would be doing this if as the government has provided equipment for all .
For the government to dare suggest that nurses are misusing the scrubs ,and indirectly that they would deprive workmates is disgusting, and as for Matt whatsisname saying dead doctors and nurses may have caught the virus in their outside lives rather than at work ,is truly horrifying . Are they trying to avoid someone sueing or paying compensation ,to these public servants who have paid with their lives ? If so don't bother clapping Boris , you really don't understand what these nurses and doctors are risking

We have better PPE stores and controls than some EU payer system countries.
Some of whom have purchased contaminated or faulty PPE because they dont have the same supply chain checks that we have