Not protected

notanan2 the research from China is that even after two clear nasal and throat swab tests 24 hours apart the faeces continue for 17 days to contain live virus. It lives in the gut longer than the airways.
Also, some people who appear to be negative (not just recovering) have been found to have the virus in their faeces. I assume these are asymptomatic people but can't remember as it's a couple of weeks since I read it.
You can find lots about this on Google Scholar as most coronavirus related papers have been released from behind the usual paywall.

Don't you have to be careful when a baby/child has had the vaccine as well? I'm just trying to think of a situation when I was told not to let my husband change the babies nappy for a while. Why him and not me? [wish my memory was better...].

I was told this when a baby DC had measles (before she was old enough to have the vaccine) as the paediatric doctor told me to be careful of all her secretions especially when changing her nappies and that it would be the same for all viruses.
Obviously many years before this arrived with such vengeance.

Yes, Callistemon, I agree. It's common sense isn't it, that ANYTHING that comes out of a person with C19 will be infectious.

Link to Wwmk2's story.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/uk-missed-three-chances-to-join-eu-scheme-to-bulk-buy-ppe

Report this morning.

“Britain missed three chances to join an EU scheme to bulk-buy masks, gowns and gloves and has been absent from key talks about future purchases”

Ideological lunacy.

I said ages ago that infections are in all secretions ergo this virus should be presumed to be the same but that was treated with scepticism.

labaik Virus in faeces - yes I have read about this and also Dr John Campbell thinks that there is a risk regarding this, as it is found in the faeces even after the patient shown no more symptoms.

Spread will of course occur through insufficient hand washing or no hand washing after using the lavatory.

Scientists are beginning to investigate this in more depth as it could well prove to be a greater risk than initially thought.

Sky reporting

"No one is misusing PPE - the problem is we don't have it."

BMA’s
@CNagpaul
responds to the health secretary's comment that health workers should not overuse protective equipment and treat it like the “precious resource that it is”.

Yes; I worry greatly for people working in shops.

I've just been speaking to a friend who said she'd heard of the virus being detected in river water in some country; possibly Holland? And isn't sewage still pumped out into the sea in some parts of the country? Interestingly, the same friend's father was admitted to hospital with breathing problems earlier in the year and he was put in a separate room, he and my friend had to wear masks and when the doctor arrived he was wearing total protection gear; as my friend said 'he hasn't got Ebola has he'...which makes you think that the NHS were very aware of the risk posed by the virus several months ago.

Except for a screen for protection i admire all the shop assistances.
They must serve 100`s of people a day and as of yet i haven`t heard of one having this virus and pray i don`t bless them.
Thy are our angels of food etc.

Cat poo might be a bigger problem.

And there still isn't much discussion about the way the virus is in faeces even after a person has recovered.

I have seen some scientific writing about this.
My hope is that since many pathogens remain in the water system. And Covid while novel isnt that unique in many ways, or treatment systems will protect us.

Not so much in other countries ? we really are lucky with our water/waste systems.

I heard something about that Labaik, is it definitely true? I wasn’t sure about it when I heard it.

I think that the advise with regard to masks is beginning to be changed.

Our trouble is that there are not sufficient for those that need them to do their job. So buying them in large numbers by the public will cause even greater difficulties.

Again *notanan2 *is making good sense, some excellent points raised in your posts. Thank you.

And there still isn't much discussion about the way the virus is in faeces even after a person has recovered.

Every country in the world is trying to buy up PPE and that’s why it’s sometimes difficult to get enough. The type of PPE in ICU is different to that used in slightly less risky settings, but top line PPE is available and being bought and delivered every day. I neither believe nor disbelieve the government or the health care settings as I think both are being truthful, but the situation re PPE changes daily in all the various settings due to the unprecedented demand because of Coronavirus.

We are constantly told that the wearing of masks does little to protect ourselves but will protect others if we cough or sneeze. I’m not sure about that, I wonder if we’re being told that to prevent a rush on mask buying which might then leave the NHS and other settings without enough masks. I just don’t know, but I think I’d feel better wearing a mask if I had to go out.

Its a yes an no.

Yes. In theory.

However totally anecdotally I have watched others when shopping and the masked and gloved people are not good at distancing. Whereas the non masked/gloved are more cautious about distancing and handling things they dont buy etc.

I dont think its a conscious decision to do it I think its to do with perception of safety

So mask AND diligent distancing/hand washing etc = safer

Mask with less distancing = less safe than no mask & distancing.

Distancing and handwashing are still the best tools.
Think florence nightingale.
Some times the basics trump high tech

I'm sorry but that doesn't answer my question which was if an asymptomatic person is wearing a mask in a supermarket and they sneeze/cough is it possible that the mask will prevent them passing the virus on to other people around them [in the way that we are advised to cough into a tissue etc]. And, if so would it not be a good idea. Germany provides masks in supermarkets for people and, this far, they seem to be dealing with the pandemic far better than we are.

Staff who have what I'll call first line PPE are not condisering that "PPE" now. Some people only want full filter masks and gowns for all tasks, which is unsafe and adds to risks if used too much and inappropriately. so its difficult to detangle that from actual experience of stock IYKWIM

The non fancy basic PPE is in some ways better in that it can easily be changed/discarded between tasks. And you dont risk contaminating your hands as much when taking it off

Its like when carehome managers went to the press to say they were issued no PPE. Care homes have PPE. They use it all the time, there are messy jobs in care homes!

What they dont have is what they see on the telly, what ITU doctors use. But nobody is going to be intubated in a care home.

If they have in patients with trachys they would already have visers in stock (or they should have had, if they never bothered before then that is bad management)

Labaik that refers to surgical masks not filter masks.

In some , SOME cases where people have been saying "we have no PPE" what they mean is they have no filter masks (and full lengtg gowns and visers).

Because they dont consider ordinary gloves, gowns, surgical masks to be PPE. As someone said upthread, they are not what you see on telly!

And even then, if not used properly and taken OFF outside of contact areas/activities, they cause more risks than they prevent.

I have seen people driving their cars alone in surgical masks. That is just dangerous.

Im not saying we wont run out of PPE. I believe some London hospitals are getting to that point now. But it was actually oxygen that ran out first.

Posters asked for help deciphering the truth about whether there has been PPE or not in light of conflicting reports. I think what has been happening is people werent given it because it wasnt appropriate for their tasks, and they felt they wanted it at all times for reassurance. But its a false reassurance if used inappropriately.

notanan; can I just ask you this regarding masks. Dr John Campbell in his excellent blog says that masks will not prevent someone from catching the virus. However it will prevent someone who is asymptomatic from infecting others if they cough or sneeze in eg a supermarket as it will stop the droplets from spreading so far. Which makes sense to me and why I am convinced that we should all be wearing masks when out and about [and am pretty sure we will all be doing so soon as the public tend to be way ahead of the government when it comes to this crisis].