Why is UK one of the worst hit?

Labaik

I asked for 'fact' not conspiracy theories and none came forward.

You said in your response there were ' no facts' by saying 'No'.

You then said I did not reply to what you said either but you were not asking for a response, you were making a statement. :-

'from what I've seen of the daily briefings, quite often when a criticism is aimed at the government the government spokesman then makes it sound as if the criticism was aimed at the NHS thereby deflecting it from themselves. No, I can't tell you which day and who said it but we've watched the briefings and remarked on it several times. Also when asked about how many NHS workers had died Hancock passed the question to the lady next to him who then didn't answer the question but talked about 'the nursing family etc etc.'

From what I have seen of Daily Briefings Hancock or whomever refers to the appropriate person to answer the question being asked and if it related to the NHS I have no issue with the NHS spokesperson answering, you do it appears.

I have never heard Hancock or any government spokesperson deflect criticism of the government onto the NHS or any other spokesperson attending on the day, you do.

The fact remains the initial statement made by Hetty was nothing short of media spin and repeated as though it was a ' fact '. Unless it can be said who/what/where/when then it is like many comments on GN nothing short of political mischief making and I make no apology for asking for evidence which may or may not become known but not it appears as of now.

Hancock is the one who accused the NHS of not having enough PPE because staff were not using it correctly [or was it overusing it...?].

'Health Secretary Matt Hancock has sparked anger by suggesting that some NHS workers may be using more personal protective equipment than needed.
The comment has been branded "insulting" by Labour Party leader Keir Starmer, and unions have rubbished claims that staff are "overusing" PPE.

It comes amid reports of huge shortages across the health service, with exclusive pictures obtained by the Mirror show desperate medics cutting up hospital curtains to make gowns and using bits of plastic as makeshift masks due to kit shortages.
And the Health Secretary confirmed that 19 NHS workers have died since the start of the pandemic'
...I suppose you didn't hear him say that either....

Labaik

The discussion was about the following:-

'Blaming rule breakers is just too convenient for the government. They've had meetings to blame the Civil Service and NHS England too. Anything to deflect the blame and damage limitation are the name of the game for career politicians, after all'.

You then spoke of the Daily Briefings.

I asked for ' facts' on the first story. I answered with my opinion on the second.

You are now moving onto another subject.

As for Hancock and PPE I didn't think it was unreasonable to request it is not overused, he may have information we are not knowledgeable about. I don't believe he was saying don't use it or don't protect yourself but he may have been thinking of stories that have been fed back to him, who knows. I accept it was totally an open goal and made him look callous which is naive for a Cabinet Minister.

Are we really the worst hit ? Or perhaps the most truthful reporters ?

You really can't bring yourself to criticise anything that this apology for a government does, can you, even when we have one of the worst death rates in the world and NHS staff are dying. It must be so much easier at this moment in time living in a country with a government that you trust and respect. I envy you. You call him naïve. Perhaps he just let his guard slip. Even when he attacks our NHS [something that I have been castigated for over the past few days] you still defend him.

We’re not the worst hit and we’re no better than most on reporting - bloody English exceptionalism.

Were you unaware that a top doctor had pointed out potential misuse of PPE, Labaik?

Did you think that Hancock just made that up?

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/09/top-doctor-sparks-anger-telling-nhs-staff-not-waste-ppe-prof-andrew-goddard-covid-19

gillybob It has been said that countries such as France and Germany include in their figures the number of deaths at home, in hospices and in residential/care homes. In the UK these figures are not included until much later so it would appear that our figures are always out of date and under-represented.

Oopsminty So, we're meant to believe that all the doctors, nurses and support staff in the NHS and elsewhere in the care system are misusing PPE and it is partly their fault that there is a shortage? I find that very difficult to believe. Somebody interviewed earlier on TV - I think she was a carer going to people's homes - said that with this virus she was using far more PPE than would normally be the case because of the much higher risk of contagion/transference.

A film piece on Sky yesterday showed a hospital in Naples where all the staff - not just those directly dealing with patients - were dressed in full, robust suits and helmet-like masks, and observed strict protocols. Every procedure meant new gloves and masks and a separation of staff working in different areas. They reported that none of the staff have contracted the virus due to these rigid protocols.

So, we're meant to believe that all the doctors, nurses and support staff in the NHS and elsewhere in the care system are misusing PPE and it is partly their fault that there is a shortage?

Absolutely not.

I was explaining why Hancock had mentioned it.

It wasn't something he just decided to mention on a whim

I have 2 close (very) relatives on the frontline who I am obviously extremely concerned about.

However the fact remains that the issue was brought it to the attention of the government

Over 700 million pieces of PPE have been delivered in the UK

The hospitals where my relatives are do not have a shortage, thankfully

It's a worldwide problem

Just today video footage of the French President has been released where he is confronted by medics saying they don't have enough PPE

Nobody was prepared for this

Government spokespeople always use the same tactic.

It goes like this …

Somebody claims that provision (of nurses, police, PPE …) is inadequate.

The spokesperson then quotes a load of figures and claims that other countries are experiencing the same. There is no attempt to state whether that figure is adequate or even accurate and no context is given. The claim of inadequacy is never addressed.

Are you a government spokesperson Oopsminty because you've just done exactly the same?

gillybob I don't know whether countries are reporting truthfully, but I know the British government isn't.

Government has misled public over UK deaths being lower than France

Daily briefings indicate UK behind France in covid-19 deaths ‘curve’

But France’s figure includes non-hospital deaths

Hospital deaths in France more than 1,000 less than in UK

The government’s daily coronavirus briefings have repeatedly and incorrectly indicated that the UK has fewer coronavirus deaths than France, based on the numbers of deaths in hospitals, HSJ has learned.

The global death comparison chart used in the televised briefing on Monday 13 April showed covid-19 fatalities in France were just above 14,000, as compared to the UK total of 11,329 confirmed hospitalised deaths. Chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said the chart only “looks at deaths in hospital”.

But, according to Public Health France, the figure for France included deaths from outside hospitals, such as in care and nursing homes. In fact, on 13 April, there had been a total of 9,588 reported deaths of covid-19 patients in French hospitals, from the total of 14,967 deaths in all settings.

It means the UK is in fact above France’s trajectory of reported covid-19 deaths, along with that of countries such as China, Germany and South Korea — even though the UK is further behind France in development of the outbreak (with fewer days passed since 50 cumulative deaths were reported).

There is huge public debate over how the UK is faring in terms of deaths compared to other European nations and the government and its advisers have constantly referrred to the ’global death comparison’ data to defend their position.

www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/government-has-misled-public-over-uk-deaths-being-lower-than-france/7027404.article

(back from gardening)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bumbling-quangos-feel-the-heat-as-whitehall-blame-game-begins-9bl0bmmw5

Can others really not recognise what's going on? Now, the idiotic Trump deflects blame onto the WHO. Damage limitation gone crazy!

Yes, I do agree with shutdown, isolation and social distancing. I really do resent the rule breakers and benders. They are playing Russian Roulette with our lives.

BUT, our government dragged it's feet, hesitated, and shut the stable door when the horse had already bolted!

Now, it's victim blaming!

www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-uk-deaths-lockdown-boris-johnson-nhs-testing-a9462951.html

Well worth a read.
No doubt at all this country was late with lockdown and not strict enough.

Hancock mentioned it because he’s trying to deflect blame already - it’s that simple.

And why the secrecy about SAGE? We are not allowed to know who sits on this committee nor the evidence on which they base their advice to the Government. And yet we know there is no such thing as ‘the science’ , there is only a variety of models, built on a variety of assumptions, offering a variety of options, the choice between which is based on political choices. The decisions about easing the lockdown, when and how, is fundamental and if it’s made for the wrong reasons, , then like previous decisions wrongly made, it will cost more lives and suffering

Why is UK one of the worst hit?

Because a whole lot of idiots out there voted for these inept career (criminals?) politicians, that's why!

Because the alternative was Corbyn that’s why.

What has corbyn got to do with the way this crisis has been handled ?

That’s like a child who has misbehaved badly saying “but bobby next door would have behaved worse”

A reply to Hetty criticising those who voted tory

I un derstand there is a Time delay of at least 3 weeks before the effect of lockdown is translated into number of deaths and we are only 3 weeks in. Added to the fact that 1000s of people got together in public places over mothers day weekend.
To those of you who are saying we should have had lockdown sooner, I agree but do you think people would have accepted it at that stage? Do you remember the outcry on this site when it was first suggested that the elderly should self isolate?

I understand Kier Starmer was interviewed on LBC this morning and impressed one who Hetty criticised by his statesmanship. Perhaps, unlike some of his Tory-baiting followers, he is taking a leaf out of Clement Attlee's book, supporting the 'war' effort and increasing his chances in winning when peace returns.

annie why not move into the present? Listen to the interviews KS is giving today, read the criticisms of the Govt across right wing press today and just for once be prepared to criticise today’s Govt and say something positive about today’s LOTO?