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An unnecessary death

(48 Posts)
Lizbethann55 Mon 20-Apr-20 19:05:06

I know I am not always a nice person partly because my children (very woke, politics somewhere to the left of Lenin) tell me so but also because I sometimes have thoughts then think, "gosh, that's not nice!" But the news on tele today of a death has made me quite cross. All deaths are sad , particularly for the family and friends of the person who has died. But this death was totally avoidable. A nurse, aged 84, has died of the virus. Sad. But why was she working? When so many of us, even younger, have done what we have been advised, even though it may be causing us problems, hardship and misery, why did she think it didn't apply to her. She had a family who loved her dearly, why did she think it was ok to risk causing them misery and grief. She did not have to go to work. I'm fact she should not have been there. And why was she even allowed to be working ? Why did her bosses not just say "no" and send her home! By the time the BBC had finished she was on par with Mother Theresa of Calcutta. But she wasn't. She was a woman who chose of her own free will to ignore all the advice. Now she has left a family bereft and grieving.

Starblaze Mon 20-Apr-20 21:14:01

I'm proud of her and i don't know her, people have died because they were needed to keep working in statistically safer age brackets. I'm proud of them all. It's frightening to go to work right now and I know a lot of people who are keyworkers who are choosing not to work. (at least 10)

Starblaze Mon 20-Apr-20 21:16:35

I'm proud of them too for protecting their families... No wrong choice here

Hithere Mon 20-Apr-20 21:52:13

A doctor in the US also went back to work after retiring and he passed away.

That doctor and the nurse made a choice. They knew the risks. They decided to help despite the danger. They were free to decide by themselves to engage again in the medical field.
Nobody forced them

CherryCezzy Mon 20-Apr-20 22:54:11

she had a family who loved her dearly, why did she think it was okay to risk causing them misery and grief

Through that lens, isn't that what all the key workers are doing?
Like I posted earlier, she didn't choose to die and therefore cause her family "misery and grief".
We all die some time and one thing I've learnt in my life, because I have lost so many people I loved, is that death is for the living because the dead don't grieve. If you love one person in your life you know that there is a likelihood that you could outlive that person for a myriad of reasons in a myriad of ways and you will inevitably suffer the loss. All life can be fragile. It is not for anyone of us to vilify the actions of another that may "risk" hurting others. Loss is an inevitable part of life but as the poet said "it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" I'm glad I loved the people I have lost.

sodapop Tue 21-Apr-20 09:14:15

Good post CherryCezzy I agree totally.

eazybee Tue 21-Apr-20 09:27:40

I have some sympathy with the poster's point of view. True, it was this woman's decision to carry on working, but at eighty-four she was at very high risk of contracting the virus, therefore needing nursing herself, and worse, of passing it on.

Hetty58 Tue 21-Apr-20 09:34:19

She ignored the government advice for over 70s. Does 'having a free choice' override it?

GrandmaMoira Tue 21-Apr-20 10:36:10

I agree withe the OP. She risked needing an ICU bed or ventilator and a lot of specialised nursing care which could have been used for someone else if she had stayed at home in line with the guidelines for over 70s.

CherryCezzy Tue 21-Apr-20 11:04:49

People of all ages are dying from this virus and men are twice as likely to die as women. Over one hundred health care professionals have died from this virus so far. All health care professionals are risking the needs of others to have an ICU bed or ventilator. The old chestnut of the dilemma between acts and omissions again raises it's head doesn't it?

Oopsminty Tue 21-Apr-20 11:09:38

She was working because she loved her job. She'd never stopped. I'm sure her family are immensely proud of her.

quizqueen Tue 21-Apr-20 11:23:40

I would like to know what the statistics are for medical staff catching flu and dying in a normal seasonal flu year. If a family or friend dies, of course, it is tragic for those who know and love them but that would happen whatever the cause of death.

Every year the NHS say they will run out of beds in the winter flu season so all data needs to be compared before it is decided whether shutting nearly everything down and ruining the world economy was worth it to save a few extra thousand lives in an over populated world.

Chewbacca Tue 21-Apr-20 15:40:31

She ignored the government advice for over 70s. Does 'having a free choice' override it

In this case, yes, it would appear that it did Hetty. Being a nurse in the hospital where she worked, she knew exactly what the risks were and still decided that it was worth it. Her life; her choices to make; her decision and no one else's.

Callistemon Tue 21-Apr-20 15:47:37

How often when we hear of someone dying whilst taking what others may think of as 'unnecessary risks' that they 'died doing something they loved.'

Usually it is some risky hobby.

This woman died doing what she considered to be her duty, working in a profession she loved, nursing and helping others.

Her family should be very proud of her.

ElaineI Tue 21-Apr-20 22:36:06

I retired 1 ½ years ago at 62 from NHS. I have worked with nurses who choose not to retire and although the actual physical care does not change the technology and recording and interventions have and do change a lot and as you get older these things become more difficult to understand and perform as well as things like sight, dexterity and physical fitness decreasing. Some people I have worked with have become quite doddery, unable to cope with new things and not being able to change. There is a fine line between being competent and beginning to lose certain skills so no 84 is too old and whoever let her nurse especially with Covid patients is to blame and also she could have passed it on to her relatives, friends and colleagues. Also the nurse that died whose baby was saved should never ever have been working. The NHS has a good scheme for sick leave and maternity pay/leave so there is no need to risk your health and your baby's health.

Eloethan Tue 21-Apr-20 23:57:42

Well, I think what she did was very brave and selfless. I expect it must be difficult if you can see how much help is needed and you are able to provide that help.

The government has been asking people to come out of retirement. Perhaps they should have set an age limit - but they didn't so it's a bit mean to have a go at this poor woman who was just trying to help.

ClareAB Wed 22-Apr-20 01:55:01

Because nursing is a vocation, you 'are' a nurse whatever your age. Maybe at 84 she felt she'd rather take the risk and help than sit at home feeling helpless. What an amazing woman.

rubysong Wed 22-Apr-20 09:02:32

Setting aside the current situation and, of course, any death is a tragedy, but I have a problem with people who work on long after they reach retirement age. At the other end of the age spectrum are young people who cannot get their careers started. Their lives and aspirations are stalled, which is bad for society as well as bad for them. The natural progression should be that people retire and everyone moves along the career ladder, making room for the young.

eazybee Wed 22-Apr-20 09:57:46

I think a large problem comes from people who work for an organisation then manage to move into administration, or on to The Committee or Board of Governors as their career is ending. Frequently unpaid but exercising a stranglehold on any development or innovation in their particular field, they flourish in political parties, in local councils and many sports and amateur organisations. They work tremendously hard, regard themselves as treasures, and are almost impossible to shift.

Callistemon Wed 22-Apr-20 11:18:55

That should be the normal progression rubysong but these are unusual times.

And we were short of nurses anyway.

Callistemon Wed 22-Apr-20 11:27:31

She was a healthcare assistant and had not been called out of retirement, she was a permanent member of the night staff in the A&E ward and a great asset to the hospital, according to the ward manager, dedicatedand hardworkinhpg.

If there had been a queue of young people wanting to do that job then I may agree but we were short of nurses even before this.

This thread is uncalled for and unkind.

JenniferEccles Wed 22-Apr-20 14:16:46

Strictly speaking of course at 84 she really shouldn’t have been working but I agree with those who have said it was her decision. Sadly it ended badly but I am certainly not angry at what she did.

She was a brave lady.

LiTom Thu 23-Apr-20 08:33:14

Did you think who she might have saved during this job that she suffered? When you become a doctor, you start to value the lives of others above yours over time, it's a payment for experience and knowledge in medicine. Some are right, it was her choice, you shouldn't blame it on others. It's grief, but if you don't appreciate the work she's done over time, then you devalue what she's done. What would you say if she saved your child while she was working, but she was infected. That she went to work for nothing?