Would you use the App?

No is the answer. First I haven't got a smart phone and don't intend to get one and second I have no intention in anyone being able to track me.

This whole thing sounds as if it is going to fail, so many of us unsure and unwilling, no follow up. I did hear a report that the group which represents Environmental Health Officers (EHO) had offered their expertise in contact tracking. They are the experts in this area ( food poisoning incidents etc) and are not working at the moment. As far as I am aware, their offer has not been taken up. There are in excess of 5000 experts available.

I wouldn't use it at the moment because as ignorant of IT as I am, there are still too many unanswered questions being raised by those more knowledgeable than me.

I need more confidence in security of data. I can imagine despite the assurances being given, data acquired may be a very profitable commodity in the future.

Yeah, I would, they say it can be of a great help.

I have decided that I would. It is only bluetooth and not a tracking app and I have nothing to hide, keeping to the rules

I would in the hope that it could warn me of any contacts with the virus.
I'm not sure how it works and I would think realistically there will be hic ups. But it's worth giving it a go if it helps people to return to some sort of normality.
People do worry about privacy and I can understand that to some degree but I would have thought it is totally impossible to be anonymous these days.
We provide so much information in the life we lead to so many sources. Our names and details much be on hundreds of databases.
Why would the government want to track the over 70s, or anyone else for that matter. I have no idea where that came from, complete nonsense. Total scare mongering.
We live in the UK if you don't want the app don't download it, you have a choice.

No I'll give it a wide berth. Cummings? Security of data etc.

Blinko I can see the value for tech savvy people who want to go to work and perhaps travel on public transport.

However, imagine what would happen if, for example, crowded commuter trains returned to normal. If one infected person stepped on a train, I wouldn't be surprised if a dozen or so people received an alert. Those people would then have to self-isolate, also affecting household members. Some people wouldn't follow the advice anyway, unless there were local enforcement. Life wouldn't be normal at all. The only answer is for life not to return to normal for some time yet.

There could possibly be some phased lifting of restrictions, but this needs to be managed and monitored closely with frequent testing - way beyond the UK's current capability.

NfkDumpling My understanding is that Germany is moving towards a Bluetooth system, but the data wouldn't be centralised. Germany and Italy will, of course, still be subject to EU data protection laws.

I need to read up more about this. I do know that there are people who know a lot more than I do who are deeply concerned about the proposed UK system.

Something else which occurred to me is if the system only works when phones are fully switched on, could it mean that some contacts are missed? Would that then give people a false sense of security and actually contribute to the spread?

I think we're on the same wavelength Doodledog. Anything Cummings is involved with makes me feel uncomfortable.

He first entered my consciousness when he was Michael Gove's SpAd at the Department for Education. Although he didn't get the same kind of publicity then, he was the person behind Gove's appalling changes to the education system.

Borrowing Anne Widdecombe's words, there's "something of the night" about him.

Apparently, the app that the rest of Europe is using collects decentralised data, but the one we would get is linked to our postcodes.

I'm beginning to change my mind, actually. Why can't we have one that can be decentralised, and that allows us to delete the data when this is over? Given Cummings' hand in all this, that makes me very uncomfortable.

I will definitely download the app. This virus is lethal and the World Health Organisation said weeks ago that testing tracking and tracing were essential in suppressing the virus so I fully support anything which helps in any way with that.

I would probably use it, but I would prefer there to be a system whereby everyone had to use an app of some sort (as I think was the case in China) before you could buy bus or train ticket, go into some premises (eg supermarkets) and so on, so that there was full compliance, as that would make it more accurate, and also because I don't see why some people should sacrifice their privacy when others can opt out.

It would be better if the app could be on a standalone device, so not attached to the data on our phones, but I can't see that happening. Maybe I would delete things like Facebook before installing it - I don't know. I'm not really bothered if the government know where I've been (the kitchen, bathroom and bedroom are the most-visited places these days!), but I'm less keen on giving up information on who I've called or what I've posted on social media.

I am fully aware that if someone powerful really wanted to know all of that they could do so, but (a) it's highly unlikely that they would be interested in me, and (b) they wouldn't find anything incriminating or interesting if they did - I'm a law-abiding type - but I don't like the idea of a national database of information that we all volunteer to populate.

utter disregard of the rules
You mean like Niel Ferguson who as just quit after being caught bringing his married lover into his home. Hypocrite ???

I have seen a number of assertions that it wasn't put out to tender, Nfk. (Can't link for much the same reason as you ? ).

I'm getting so angry about, and frustrated by, the apparent utter disregard of the 'rules' and the blatant cronyism. This is looking more and more corrupt.

No, don't see the point. It is no help if you encounter someone with no symptoms. The security of the app is questionable to say the least.

That’s really interesting. It seems though that Italy is using a Bluetooth system and Germany is jettisoning the Google one it was going to use and is now looking at Bluetooth based one too. Although it probably depends on which paper you read. (And don’t ask me to find the links - I’ve browsed too far on other things to go back!).

I agree that Mr Cummings seems to have far too much influence. I would like to know if it was put out to tender.

Yes I would definitely.

Singapore that usually complies to everything ask of it only has a 20% take up

Yes, I would download the app.

Thanks for all the information it has been really interesting. I'm not sure about it still. I do think it might be better to recruit hundreds of people to trace and tell anyone who has been in contact with someone with the virus. It would be more effective and I think people would take much more notice. They could offer testing when they make contact.

That's worrying, MaisieD. As is the Cummings/Warner connection and the wider implications that it could be used for subliminal marketing, as well as the potential for the system not being compatible with European systems. Not to mention the apparent croneyism.

Do we have a choice, though? If we want this thing crushed, there's surely no option but to install the app?

It's possible that the app won't work effectively, anyway

Despite what the NCSC has continued to imply, the app will not, as it stands, work all the time on iOS nor Android since version 8. The operating systems won't allow the tracing application to broadcast its ID via Bluetooth to surrounding devices when it's running in the background and not in active use. Apple's iOS forbids it, and newer Google Android versions limit it to a few minutes after the app falls into the background.

That means that unless people have the NHS app running in the foreground and their phones awake most of the time, the fundamental principle underpinning the entire system – that phones detect each other – won't work.

It will work if people open the app and leave it open and the phone unlocked. But if you close it and forget to reopen it, or the phone falls asleep, the app will not broadcast its ID and no other phones around you will register that you've been close by.

There is more about the use of the data, but this is the question mark over its practical use.

www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/

Ah, so it's not personal information, it's big business getting advantages.

I'll still have the app, as I think the ends justifies the means. There isn't time to analyse different systems and decide which has the least problems. The imperative is to get the infection figures down and anything which does that and gets us out of this mess is good.

Will the companies using GPS be any different?

NfkDumpling Bluetooth technology, unlike GPS, doesn't locate your precise destination. The app will only ask you for the first part of your postcode. All the time you are negative for Covid-19, you will just communicate with other app users. However, as soon as you say that you have symptoms, you will be asked for further details and the information will be sent to a central database.

There are two main dangers from a data protection point of view:

1 The technology could be used in the future for other purposes.

2 Even though it's anonymous, the data will be analysed and will provide valuable information, if millions of people are involved. For example, it will provide information about how many people in specific areas within specific age groups needed ventilators.

That sounds quite harmless, but it's actually worth a fortune and marketing people will pay huge amounts of money for it. For example, a company wanting to sell oxygen masks would know where the greatest need is and could place advertisements strategically, either physically or online.

Warner's company has been paid £250,000 for the app, but he stands to make much more in the future from selling the information and, possibly, using the technology for other purposes.

PS. My daughter works for the ICO and they are very concerned about the potential for hacking and misuse of the data.