I predict another rise of covid

^What a stupid analogy to suggest any similarity with today and

Another error; I said no such thing. I compared your words with the sort of words spouted in the 1930s. If you are going to disagree could you check you read it right in the first place before accusing me of things I haven't said, please.

^Don’t you think these times of pandemic are extreme then?"

A straw man distraction as that is not what we disagree on. So back to what we do disagree about? It looks as if the effects of the pandemic are going to be more extreme here than most other countries. You blame a minority of the population. I, and others, blame the government and particularly the leader of the governing party, Boris Johnson. The word governing gives it away.

Not only did his government not ensure we were equipped for what was flagged up by experts as the most likely crisis of our time but he left lockdown until far to late, losing weeks that would, had we been properly directed, saved thousands of lives.

This lockdown was only accomplished with huge vacillation and indecision. No wonder rules were broken; they had been made clear. You only have to read GN to see that - unless you are counting GNetters, trying to get it right, among your "idiots". Then the decision to keep Cummings, a man who offered his guilt on a plate in the No. 10 rose garden. One day we will know just how much that undermined our pretty cohesive behaviour but for the moment we all know it did.

And now, error upon error, he has unlocked too early, risking another increase in deaths.

How you excuse him is beyond me.

The infection rate is certainly going down in general and more specifically in some areas. It's not surprising that there are pockets of increase and there are plans for local lockdowns as required.
Look at the Covid tracker app. I wish I could put a link to the section that shows the reduction over time as a moving graphic.
A key moment will be 3 weeks from now when we'll see or not see the results of this weekend's marches.

The infection rate is barely going down - certainly not as quickly as other countries have witnessed. In some places it's increasing. It's on a knife edge.

maddyone I agree with you that lockdown wasn't rigidly enough enforced. If it had have been, we would probably have a much lower infection rate now and it would be safer to resume something like normal life now.

However, I do think what is happening to democratic processes in general has parallels with what happened in early 1930s Germany.

The Cummings affair and the way it was handled seems to have had a direct effect on people's behaviour. Up until then I thought things were going OK.
However, currently, the infection rate is definitely going down. After the mass events this weekend though that might change? ?

Don’t you think these times of pandemic are extreme then? Perhaps 40,000 deaths aren’t enough to be called extreme.

What a stupid analogy to suggest any similarity with today and Hitler.

Extreme times demand extreme solutions.

I'm sure someone was saying sort of thing in th 1930s.

People just need to be told, clearly, what is expected of them and what will happen otherwise. We also need every one to be treated in the same way.

Name calling is petty and infantile. We all know some people, sometimes grannies, need clear information and for that we need good leadership - or are you saying the quality of leadership doesn't matter. As they wheel those suggesting that it all down to a few "idiots" towards the ventilators I wonder if you will still be spouting the same gutter press nonsense?

And yes, I would like armed police and the armed forces on the streets. Then the Covidiots would behave responsibly. Extreme times demand extreme solutions.

In other countries there have been draconian lockdowns, and that has lead to their declining numbers of cases of Covid19. Here in the UK, our lockdown was weak. In France, Italy and other countries, people were NOT allowed out of their homes, even for exercise. If they went shopping, they had to download a ticket and put on it where they were going, what time they left and so on. We’ve had Covidiots out socialising all through lockdown, in the parks, on the beaches, in the country, in the streets (Manchester police had to close down 40 street parties one night) and now unbelievably in all our cities protesting about something that happened half way across the world. The authorities weren’t initially given sufficient powers, the lockdown was never strong enough, and many of the people are idiots. The population of the UK is not entirely comprised of lovely old grans, who smile and pat grandchildren on the head and enjoy knitting, and writing on Gransnet. There are thousands of Covidiots out there who don’t give a jot about spreading the virus. Many of them think the virus only kills the old, so what does it matter!

I'm sure they've all got good excuses, like protecting their children or testing their eyesight.

But people are just "following their instincts" like Dominic Cummings did. He was praised by the Prime Minister for his behaviour, perhaps the people crowding about are hoping for the same praise.

Just what I was thinking Whitewave. I every other country their leadership has led them from better than our outcomes to extremely better than them and yet here we, the general public, have got us into this mess. Right. I wonder what sort of person believes that and why?

No, they'll be responsible when it goes higher still.

What a mess this country is in.

The current protesters are not responsible for the fact that the R has crept up in some areas.

Thank you GrannyGravy. That’s what I thought too.

washerwoman why do you think that people in the U.K. are some of the worst behaved in the world?

And I'm not convinced whoever was in government would alter the behaviour of the 'no-one is telling me what to do ' or' I'm invincible and the virus isn't my problem brigade'.The same type of idiots who fly tip,litter and behave antisocially.

We have 3 adult DCs living in 3 different cities.One an ICU nurse.At some point each of them has rung in utter frustration at the behaviour of neighbours .Next doors boyfriend staying over ,bbqs and drinking, young lad repeatedly going out with a big group of mates on bike rides.Even a bouncy castle on the street with several families drinking whilst children from several households played on it.The police did turn up to shut that one down.Not to mention behaviour - and disgraceful litter - on a nearby beach in the area that now has a rising R rate.Where DH and I live it's a quiet area where everyone seems to have been responsible and sensible.How do you govern the sort of behaviour of the selfish idiots ?

gg13 have you heard of the term gaslighting. I will be surprised if you haven’t, as you are very skilled at it.

Are you saying that the folk in the U.K. are worse than almost every other country in the world in their behaviour during lockdown? Of course they aren’t..

It is entirely down to appalling leadership.

As The Spectator said “Johnson needs to get a grip”

But his notoriety of laziness, lying and Immorality are too ingrained for there ever to be a hope of him becoming the leader we desperately need.

It is the idiots all over the Country not observing lockdown which are responsible for any rise in the “R”, the protesters, the beach goers, those who think they can do what they like!!!

Many Countries who have come out of lockdown have not seen a second wave. Unfortunately there are many people in the UK with it will not happen to me or mine mentality.

No Government can legislate against these idiots, unless you would like to live with armed police and our Armed Forces on every street corner.

And so it continues.

This week the Spectstor a right wing Publication has called for Johnson to GET A GRIP. I suspect it is a forlorn call.

Dr Adrian Harrow
right, so...i’m a GP in Liverpool, in the North West of England... our median R rate in now 1.01 Face with open mouth and cold sweatFire... what happens now? what do i tell my patients? are we back in lockdown? or are we just left to our own devices by central govt in Westminster? ... what an utter nightmare. Persevering faceWarning sign

* Unfortunately the rain has not stopped the idiotsprotesters in London they have already defaced Winston Churchills statue on what is the 76th Anniversary of the beach landings on Normandy.*

I did wonder if rain would put them off

Why do they feel the need to deface things?

Just awful

I heard some expert on TV the other day talking about the R value. He was pointing out that it was vague and to only rely on this wasn't the way we should react.

Apologies for the clumsy way that's written! Can't think straight

However I have found this rather interesting article which says similar

theconversation.com/coronavirus-is-the-r-number-still-useful-138542

Unfortunately the rain has not stopped the idiotsprotesters in London they have already defaced Winston Churchills statue on what is the 76th Anniversary of the beach landings on Normandy.

jane I think you mean popular media. They can of course support a populist government, but the two concepts are quite different.