AIBU No going back to school I’m furious.

"If in September the Covid-19 situation throughout Britain is no different to the situation as of present would you propose that the schools remain closed indefinitely?"

I would hope that by then there would be Government plans and - most importantly - Government money available for putting in place :-

construction alterations (a chance for the construction industry to get contracts) that would give twice as many separate rooms, all with individual toilet and washing facilities and storage for pupils' outerwear and belongings and access to the outside without sharing corridors

a pooling of all the experience which had been gained by the various schools and education authorities around the country while they have been working both in schools with the children of key workers and online supplying, supervising and marking (!!!) educational materials for children at home

seminars where those combined skills and researches can be widely disseminated to those at the chalkface

a recruiting drive for more staff to teach and/or suprvise all the extra groups

training or retraining for the extra staff that had been recruited, including in how to implement the information that had been accumulated about effective ways of managing children ( children not adults) in an extended emergency situation

national re-awareness of the importance of distancing and segregation in a pandemic, and of hygeine measures, to an extent that no-one thinks that it is OK to risk getting a highly infectious disease unnecessarily, under the pretext of "I'm fit and healthy, I'll take my chances" when they really should be thinking of other people sharing their choice of risk with them.

All this takes joined-up thinking, which doesn't seem to be a feature of our current government.

Woodhouse I think we are in agreement. I agree that people from outside of education can prove excellent on a governing body, but that those who dont listen to the experience of others are of concern. I would have no confidence that the person currently lecturing us on crb checks would be able to do that.

Ellianne Sun 14-Jun-20 11:56:47 "Nevermind September, why aren't we trialling solutions now?" What else do you think the introduction of schooling for a very few years of classes is but trialling? You don't start a trial run with a whole school-full of volatile children! Imagine the chaos.

Elegran, in regard to your post at @14:01 today, can I say thank you for being the first forum member to provide an answer to my often repeated the question in this thread.

However, you attach many conditions to the full reopening of schools some of which may take at least two to three years to carry out.

Therefore can I accept that if the situation in regard to Covid-19 is the same in Britain in September as it is of now, and those developments you propose are not in place you would recommend that all schools remain closed to the vast majority of their pupils indefinitely, or at least until all the changes you put forward are in place?

elegran
I’m waiting to hear how the summer schools are going to be set up and how much is being given to finance them.

This is a big logistics challenge as well as a financial commitment.

There are conditions attached to the reopening of everything grandad, why should schools be any different. Shops, pubs, restaurants, museums, etc will not open without conditions.

I fear it is inevitable that when schools do all re-open to everyone, all the conditions I would have hoped for in my previous post will NOT be in place. Some of them could have happened years ago, with the goodwill of successive governments and the willingness to invest in the future - just like all the things that could have been done for the NHS and a lot of other institutions and services.

Other countries have health and education services which have been kept up-to-date as an investment in the health and education of the population, which results in a more fit and flexible workforce, and therefore in a nation more ready to cope with demands and changes.

I takes money and a long-term view to do it, and this country has long been reluctant to think and plan beyond the next election - and that apllies across the board. Short-termism, "marketing" the parties in the media and putting narrow party advantage before the long-term good of the country has the results we have seen all too clearly.

This isn't just about schools. It's about the infection rate in the community.

Everybody accepts that there will always be a risk, but it would be downright stupid and irresponsible not to be aware of the high risks - it doesn't take much to realise that and to realise that there is no solution without extra resources. A positive attitude coupled with a laid back "let's see how it goes" approach just won't do.

Even if distancing rules are relaxed to one metre, it will still be impossible (no matter how positive people are) to maintain that distance with 30 children in a class. One way or other, twice the space is needed. An estimated 250,000 additional adults are also needed, in addition to extra hand washing and toilet facilities, etc.

At the moment, the average percentage of people showing symptoms is 0.5% (with many variations across the country). Some people, especially children. are apparently asymptomatic. That means that, on average, in a 2000 pupils secondary school, at least ten are infected at any one time.

Secondary school teachers usually take five different groups of pupils a day, so the chances are high that they will come across an infected pupil. The pupils themselves usually move between different groups, so consistent "bubbles" can't be maintained.

If all pupils return in September and the rate of infection stays as it is, it will only be a few days before nearly the whole school is infected, just as happened in care homes. Some of the staff will have underlying health conditions. Some of the pupils will take infection back to their families. It is unrealistic to think that some people wouldn't die.

The only solution is to get the infection rate in the community right down - maybe to 0.1% and to have a super-efficient test and trace system, so that any infection can be identified quickly (within hours) and small groups are isolated.

The R number needs to be consistently much lower than it is at present for safe return to near normal school to be possible.

I am not very concerned about the detriment to education, given that all schools are working hard to provide alternative input for their pupils. Also, a whole cohort of children will be in the same boat. Clearly those children from homes which see education as important will have an advantage; but I know that schools are going out of their way to target input to those children who are most vulnerable, and many of these have been in school throughout.

The absolute priority is to knock this pandemic on the head.

www.tes.com/news/all-dutch-primary-pupils-are-back-school-heres-how

If the death rate in the UK was the same as the Dutch I think all schools would be open here as well- just over 6000. They have had less cases thn we have deaths.
www.coronatracker.com/country/netherlands/

Yes if the germa

Yes if the german government or the New Zealand government was advising me to send my children to school I would do so without a second thought. I would no more put my childs safety in Boris Johnsons hands than I would fly to the moon.

Sadly you are right.

We have seen in this in this country many industries and sectors remain continuously operational throughout this crisis or are now reopening with various levels of Covid-19 safety protection

In electricity, gas and water supply high covid protection has been achieved tbrough staff cooperation which has even been to the extent of employees living on site at power stations etc.

In the transport and Distribution industries, managements and their workforces have cooperated by way of innovation and determination to accomplish Covid-19 security even though that can never be anywhere near one hundred percent, and in that, they work on in their essential employment.

In refuge collection and recycling very little if any Covid-19 safety can be brought forward, but again those workers have continuously worked on in that knowledge throughout the crisis.

Many other sectors and industries have through cooperation and innovation kept operating or reopened and in that overcome all manner of problems in the process.

However, what do we find in the Education "Establishment", almost total negativity through a complete lack of any motivation to see their sector and schools gain full operation for the vast majority of pupils that those in that establishment are supposed to be responsible for in their education.

Their are exceptions to the above as Elegran and Woodhouse have pointed out, but in the main this thread has been about excuses, placing blame on others and a complete lack of any "can do" attitude by those who claim to be or have been involved in that "Education Establishment"

Never has there been in this thread any thought of challenging the authorities that they blame for the current situation in education by anyone involved in teaching. Therefore it is only to be concluded that teachers and the vast majority involved in education are content to remain in their "comfort bubble" on their full salaries while those who should be receiving their services have to accept a very limited education program at best.

Disgusting.

Grandad your views and sweeping statements are horrific.

Galaxy

Grandad your views and sweeping statements are horrific.

They are the truth Galaxy and that is what those in the "Education Establiment" refuse to accept.

No it's your truth grandad. As a parent currently using the system it is not my experience.

Well Galaxy, after just talking to two of our daughters this afternoon it is very much their experience when it comes to their children.

Grandad1943 can I ask if you include in your Educational Establishment all the private schools which remain closed, the universities like Cambridge which has already said they won't be doing face to face lectures or is it just state school children you think should all be in school?
I wonder when someone raises a health and safety problem and asks for a proper risk assessment do you always accuse them of excuses, placing blame on others and a complete lack of any "can do" attitude?

I assume he would trisher it seems like a general dislike of all teachers.

I must admit having exhibited a huge lack of knowledge about education, police checks, government guidelines, and many other things to do with schools you have resolutely stuck to your opinion. Unfortunately all the evidence is against you.

trisher, in regard to your post@19:23 today, I have any number of times responded to questions you have asked of me in this thread. My thanks for that by yourself was to state I was "mansplaining" which you said you detest.

I can only now think that in the mist of your misandry dominated world you are unable to rationalise or appreciate when others are trying to pay respects to your requests.

Therefore I will not respond to your question of me on this occasion.

And further meanderings @19:29 today.

Grandad1943 would you like to withdraw that remark please. I never accused you of 'mansplaining' I said you were "obfuscating". I also said I like the word obfuscating and I didn't like mansplaining (meaning the word). I realise you don't like anything which isn't a technical comment but really to twist what I said just because you have no sense of humour really isn't fair.
I can't help it if I feel affection for some of the English language.